Dual 9.5kWh batteries - portal only counting charging of one

I have a new setup with 2x AC3.0 inverters and 2x 9.5kWh batteries (plus a non Givenergy PV inverter and 7.5kWp of PV).

Both the online portal and the mobile app only count the power going into one of the batteries (so basically half of the total charging) from the PV. If it says generation to battery is _2kWh, later that evening once the batteries have depleted it would say roughly _4kWh Battery to home. This is backed up by the percentages that the batteries are charged to.

This all means that my stats for overall solar generation are missing the about half the amount that went from the generation to the battery.

Yesterday it shows;

• generated to home 9.81 kWh
• generation to battery 2.22 kWh
  Yet it shows I did 4.67kWh battery to home.
  The batteries are set to not charge from the grid.

My installer has said there is some kind of sync cable coming to solve the dual battery/inverter issues. Is that right?

Related to this, sometimes my batteries charge to equal levels, other times they are quite mismatched (one will go to 39% and the other 16%, or even worse, one won't appear to charge at all).

Whilst I'm on a rant, the cumulative totals in the cloud portal are broken for me. Today it says I have generated 238kWh and consumed 1 megawatt hour 😅 .

Any help is much appreciated.

I have exactly the same issue and the same setup.
The data is all over the place.

One inverter is charging from solar the other appears to be getting nothing. We are not generating much solar but what we do generate we send between 15 and 20% to the grid.

Seem to be using grid power when batteries are 90% full and also sending power from the batteries to the grid at the same time.

I rang GivEnergy and was told that the cable would be available end Q1/Q2. I was told that they do not recommend the setup that we have. I challenged my installers and was told that its fine and it depends on who you talk to at GivEnergy.

jebjeb Givenergy have a "plant" configuration for multi-AC3s, the control of which which has caused headaches whereas their multi-Hybrid inverter installations are completely separate and work fine together (in my experience). Given the number of possible combinations of inverters and batteries with/without other manufacturer's kit, it may be some time before the Givenergy cloud and app are reporting your data correctly to you.

Fundamentally, if the data for each individual inverter (battery data especially) looks sensible, then what you are seeing is an incorrect presentation in the cloud of your inverter performance. If the data reflects what the cloud is reporting, then there's an issue with the inverters working well together.

The Givenergy cloud was reporting some weird data for our dual hybrids and the reports were pants. Over the last few months, the portal and app data has greatly improved in accuracy although the portal still only reports house load from one inverter while the reports are looking really quite good.

All this time, the inverters were working exactly as designed, the individual inverter data was "looking right"; it was just the portal that had misleading data. I knew that because I looked at yesterday's data each day and it seemed to reflect what I observed at the time. Get to the bottom of whether it's the inverter's performance that's poor, or if it's the reporting that's not right. As long as the inverters are actually doing what they're supposed, to, I suggest that giving feedback about where the problem lies will get your config sorted on the portal but if it is the inverters not playing nicely, then the EMS (AKA sync cable) might be your only answer.

I have a similar setup (except 8.2 batteries). Initially these were installed as two separate systems and the data mostly made sense on the portal (although the app data still showed only a single battery charge - portal showed both interestingly at the top but lower down in the cards only 1?)

Recently when we had our last bits installed they swapped it to a plant configuration and the data has gone nuts. Reports still mostly make sense, but the portal figures are pointless. Like you I’m awaiting the EMS. Since going to plant though I have noticed that the batteries are more often fairly closely synced and operate as a pair. I still get the occasional cross-charging and one supplying more than the other however. I knew about this going in, and hopefully it won’t be too much longer for the ems. What I don’t get is that the solar is misreporting .. the solar data is sent via my Solis inverters, not even GE so why is this weird in the portal, but in the app it’s now reporting correctly? Can GE reset the readings in the portal alone?

Thanks for the replies.

That’s why I’m not making too much noise about it with my installer. The system is basically working but just not reporting correctly. I’m slightly worried as one battery is generally the one to charge more than the other so I just wonder if that will cause any mismatch in degradation over time.

It is making it difficult to record stats for input into actuals and payback calculations but that will pass as the new owner excitement dies off.

Let’s just hope that it gets sorted in a future app and cloud portal update.

Tim I was informed by GE that the portal data issue was due to data corruption because of the two non-linked inverters and that only the ems would truly fix it

Here is the list of issues with dual AC3's I got from GE

"balancing issues between the two inverters, cross charging between the batteries/inverters and data anomalies in the system readings on the app and portal"

Dual AC3's are not currently recommended until the EMS device comes out. My installer will not add a second AC3 for me until the EMS unit comes out.

Hmmm, it is frustrating that my installer recommended this setup then if there were know issues.

Let’s hope for a resolution soon.

jebjeb Last I was told is the EMS is targeted for release Q2 this year. I am keeping everything crossed that the date does not move again as I could really do with the 6kw total charge/discharge now.

THALL I get the 6kw discharge most of the time. It’s just the occasional bugs that are sometimes irritating meaning you can’t just fit and forget you have to keep an eye on it.

Anyone else note that when charging for solar, it reads some of the “battery charging as house load? On my ME app currently shows 0.1kw house usage and 0.4kw to batteries.

GE showing about 200W going to battery and 400W house load. More inclined to believe the ME as that’s only off CT clamp and not having to deal with inverters being weird!

Smk82 data corruption because of the two non-linked inverters

This doesn't ring true (the comment from Givenergy, not your reporting of it) to me. Each inverter has a dongle that connects to your wifi and posts data to the Givenergy cloud every ten minutes. The data will be registered to the specific inverter (or dongle?). Maybe what they mean is that their consolidation process corrupts the data because they aren't connected as a plant? Perhaps now that they are connected as a plant, it fits their data model but the historical data can't be included because they can't consolidate "corrupted" data.

Smk82 only the ems would truly fix it

I spoke to Givenergy about my concerns regarding dual inverters "fighting" each other before I committed to an installation in November 2021. They mentioned the EMS said it would be out in Q1 of 2022; the same time as our dual hybrid installation. It wasn't launched. I truly hope that they bring this panacea to market soon but I also hope that they put several into service with beta testers first, to find the bugs and issues before general release. The success that they are having with the SoC issue is at the cost of customer goodwill. I would have to see some pretty special features to entice me to add it to our installation which just works as it is, no "fighting" at all.

Tim Just to add when you mention testers for the EMS. I was told it was fully tested, I did offer to test it but was told no more testers were needed. Though with the new firmware to fix soc issues etc I am concerned the EMS may need more testing? I do not pretend to understand how it works etc etc why this new EMS takes over from the internal ems etc etc

Tim

“the data gets corrupted with dual inverters so its no fault of an individual system, but more so how they control that data shared.”

This is what I was quoted from GE directly.. but who knows.. could be pixie dust 😂

Smk82 but more so how they control that data shared

The first bit doesn't ring true; the second bit quoted doesn't make sense.

THALL I was told it was fully tested

Tested, yet not on their web site, even as a "coming soon" item like the "All in One" and EV charger.

Tim Indeed. Though on the commercial units they have a seperate EMS box so I did wonder if this is a cut down version? So tried and tested tech already. Again no idea, just guessing.

I have no doubt that the data that I'm seeing is wrong. Its quite clear that if I cross reference in multiple places the numbers don't stack-up.

I'm also convinced that even though the data is wrong, in some cases it is indicative as to what is happening. This shows me that the inverters are not managing the energy as they should:

1. If I compare the app to my in home display at a point that its sending large amounts of energy to the grid I see this reflected in the in home display. This happens when there is space in the batteries and often its going from the batteries to the grid.
2. We have an AGA that is set to run on slumber. We know how much the AGA draws and that it spikes every 40 minutes to an hour to maintain the slumber temperature. We can see that every spike is matched by energy from the grid even when generating solar or full batteries. (should be taking it from batteries or solar)

I am also receiving some regular errors on the inverters:

1. Electricity Meter Com Fail
2. BMS Under Voltage

I have read that the two inverters should be set as master and slave. (not sure that mine are). But I have also read that the AC3 should not be setup in this way and that the master and slave should only be set for hybrid inverters. Any views?

I have a meeting with my installer to discuss. As far as they are concerned its not their issue and that it depends on who you talk to at GiveEnergy about this issue.

Japlows two inverters should be set as master and slave.

Hybrids aren't designed to operate as a "plant" (ie connected together over Modbus and working together). Givenergy's AC3s are designed to operate as a plant, with one being the master and any others being connected as slave. The master device is connected to EM115 meters and to any slave inverters over Modbus (single twisted pair cable). If you have two or more AC3s and they're not connected over Modbus, then each will behave as though they are the only such inverter installed. Each AC3 will have to have an EM115 to monitor grid import/export and another to monitor any PV from a separate inverter. Givenergy's EMS (Energy Management System?) is said to be in development for domestic installations but @THALL says their commercial inverters already have such a device which will control multiple inverters to meet the design needs of the premises.

We did get Electricity Meter Com Fail and BMS under voltage when our inverters were first installed but no such alarm reports since. The Com Fail suggests a wiring fault (maybe intermittent) which your installer should be able to resolve and the BMS Under Voltage suggests a battery problem which Givenergy should look at. Note that the BMS in the battery is connected to the inverter over Modbus as well and should be reporting even if the battery isolator trips.

Thanks Tim this is really helpful. I discussed the slave master setup with my installer last night and he wasn't aware that this was possible. (he was not the actual installer)
I will pass this on to my installers and hopefully get them to re look at the slave master setup and search for any faulty wiring.

I am beginning to understand the scale of the challenge I have taken on. My installer suggested that 3 x 9.5kw each with an AC3, feeding of a 12.45kw PV array of 30 panels. We have a domestic three-phase supply. The installer has set the systems up as three individual and unlinked systems each with its own string and its own phase. The only shared hardware is the string inverter. In effect I have three separate systems. I also have three accounts and have to log out and log in to see each dashboard as keeping each one open on a browser tab is unpredictable. I have yet to use the system as we still have installation issues that now require a GE visit for a mutual head scratching session with our installers. My first issue is that the date we get from the daily reports is pants. If I aggregate 'grid import' data from the GE reports the combined figure is between 10% and 40% less than the Octopus daily usage data (a my energy Harvi corroborates broadly the Octopus figure). Is it possible to get accurate data from GE or am I trying to push water uphill looking fora solution. Some guidance on how to get more accurate data from more experienced users would be appreciated, please.

Dougal That's a complex and comprehensive system there. Do you have house load split over the three phases and can the string inverter dynamically match demand on each phase to output on that phase?

I'd expect each AC3 to have an EM115 measuring grid import/export and another to measure output from the inverter for that phase. If so, then the inverters should all behave as though each was a single phase installation (because it is). As long as the string inverter can vary output for a particular phase to match demand, then it should all work well.

I'm surprised that you have to have separate accounts for each inverter. I understand that they are on different phases but that shouldn't make a difference to how the data is presented in the cloud. Our two hybrids are available via one login and each has its own tab on the inverter card. The data aggregation in the cloud has improved significantly since it was first commissioned in January 2022 although the summary card still only shows house load for one inverter but the reports are getting much better.

WRT the accuracy of the import/export data, the EM115 is supposed to be as accurate as any electricity meter. Ask your installer to check that the CTs are properly clipped and that they are facing the correct way. If one was on the wrong way round, that would give you a significant error of the order you say. However, even when they are all installed correctly, there will always be a difference between the Givenergy portal readings and your Octopus meter.

Tim Thanks for your considered thoughts, Tim. We have in effect three systems, one on each phase. The house load is split over the three phases. We have been working to try to optimise the loading. The main challenge in this task is that the 11.2kw Ecodan ASHP is single phase. It is the major power user. It burns around 7000kw a year - ASHPs are hungry beasts – ranging from >1000 kW in midwinter to >200 kW in summer. We are hoping the SMETS2 vector sum meter will compensate for any unintended but inevitable exports to the grid. That is what we understand 'vector sum' to infer? I had to google EM115. Yes, the installer fitted one for each AC3. I can't see another one to measure output for each phase. I know little of the 'Huawei SUN2000-(8KTL-20KTL)-M2' and its capabilities. Specified and installed by the supplier/installer I have paid it little attention so far. I have assumed it does vary output to match demand. Some of the marked variability on power to home and battery on the cloud portal dashboard for each phase means the jury is out on it manages this issue. After installation the installer and boss came back for a whole day and spent at least two hors on and off with GE Tech Support. Our installation is still not complete and we wait on a GE site visit. We have 7 CT clamps in the and at least two have been reversed and one back again even. (Given I want to connect our Zappi to the system as well for smart EV charging we could end up with a CT clamp jungle)

I checked with GE tech support on the need for separate accounts and they confirmed this was the case. Apparently there is a development to enable the single management of multi-phase installations in the offing - sounds like vapourware to me.

It would be helpful to know why you suggest we need two EM115 meters for each phase? I can see the three coming off the clamps around L1.,L2 and L3 in the RCD unit. IF there are others were would they be?

You say the GivEnergy portal readings will always differ from the Octopus usage. I can accept there might be a 5% variability on eacb day but surely not in the order of 12-40% over a given 24-hour period?

In my experience of our system, the GE daily grid data will always be lower than real world, as occasional network drop-outs will mean that the GE servers miss some data - which can never be recovered.

ToothyChris I occasionally get that with the Harvi with its CT clamps around the three phases at the supply point. Its communication with the Zappi is very occasionally interrupted and likewise the Zappi with our router. Even so, most days the figure is within 5% of the Octopus measure. I guess it depends upon whether one can say that 12-42% lower metrics are reasonably due to drop-outs?

Dougal IF there are others were would they be?

This is from an old installation manual so could be out of date now.

The previous page showed a "blue" CT which could be connected straight into the AC3 without having the EM115 (ID2). I guess it just depends on the distance between the incomer from the string inverter and the AC3 - whether the Blue CT tails are long enough to reach.

Tim Thanks, Tim. Sadly I am none the wiser. I will have to ask my installer. It is a llttle beyond me.

ToothyChris My installer informed me that the GE inverters have a buffer that stores data. If there is an internet outage for whatever reason the buffer stores the data, releasing it when the connection has been re-made. if this is right then the GE servers will never miss any data. Is this correct? I am beginning to wonder if that is right?

Dougal This is definitely not true. My solaredge inverter does this but the GE 100% doesn't.

No they don't store data. What you will see in the app graphs is a straight line connecting the last reported data point with the current point. No buffering at all.

Think the installer may be muddling up spot data and cumulative data.
Cumulative ones (like total kWh consumed) keep rolling when connection to GE servers is lost. The new total just gets pushed the next time it connects - so you’ll see a jump that takes you back to where you should be, you just won’t know the finer details like when you actually used it.

Dougal The second CT (on the line between the string inverter and your consumer unit) is for monitoring the output from your string inverter so it shows up on the portal. I don't think it has any role in controlling the inverter's ability to minimise grid import/export which is what the ID1 EM115 does.

The system reads the EM115 'totals' registers - hence no missing 'total' data. Does anyone know if the Grid voltage is read from the EM115 (or OM115 or GEM120CTM) - or is it an inverter function.

hoggy Thanks, hoggy. That I would expect but it seems to be at odds with what judgepd has said in their response. If it is true then I would expect the cumulative inverter total kWh consumed (3 combined in my case) to be broadly in line with the Octopus billing usage with an error margin of, say, up to 5%. It isn't.

judgepd Hi Judge. When you say 'GE100% doesn't' does that in your experience apply to cumulative totals as well as spot data? Hoggy thinks cumulative totals get passed on

Zakalwe Do you think the inverter collects and transfers the cumulative totals when connection is regained? Or does it lose the all data between loss of signal re-connection? I am a little confused at present. I would like to think hoggy is right but fear you and judgepd may know differently?

Dougal To be honest I couldn't say for the cumulative totals but it doesn't recover minute by minute data if it's lost connection.

After investigating further we have I think identified what's causing the issues with sending large amounts of energy to the grid and taking energy from the grid when batteries have plenty of energy.

1. We have an electric AGA that is set to run on slumber. The AGA calls for very short bursts of energy to maintain the slumber temperature.
2. My setup is not reacting quickly enough to send the increased demand from the batteries or solar so it gets satisfied by the grid.
3. By the time the batteries and solar have kicked in the demand from the AGA has gone. The excess then gets sent back to the grid.

Has anyone experienced the same issue and if so is there anything that could be done to speed up the reaction time?

The new beta firmware has a faster reaction speed. They weren't planning that, just a happy accident.

So perhaps in the near future (not sure how long till everyone gets it)...

I believe some users with induction hobs have experienced similar issues, with short/transient loads (have a search on here for other post relating to induction hobs). The new software, which may or may not appear soon, is supposed to have a much faster response time, so your setup might benefit more than most.

Ah, just beat me to it TX200!

Japlows You see the same when a steam iron is being used - very high bursts of power demand for a short period of time - cycling every 20-30 seconds. We've found that the only way to prevent this causing continuous import/export is to do the ironing while exporting.

And some induction hobs send the Ge system into a tailspin, too.

Thanks everyone for your help and advice.
I’ve asked if I can receive the beta update. Not sure if they will give me it but fingers crossed.