If I were to permanently block the GE inverter from accessing the internet, would it cause problems with day to day operation?
My WiFi can block individual devices from connecting to the internet while keeping local access open for Home Assistant / GivTCP. So it's easy enough to do.
I'm slightly worried that the firmware might decide to shut things down if it can't phone home to GE after some time, or that the device will try and store up historical statistics in the hope of uploading them when the internet comes back -- I don't want that to happen and I don't want a backlog of statistics being stored on the device to cause problems by overusing storage.
Do you have a link to the actual full warranty documents?
My installer only gave me a warranty card for the battery part, which only requires internet connectivity after making a claim so they can remotely confirm there's a problem and, if there's no internet access, they just charge you a £100 callout fee to come and have a look, and that can be refunded if the warranty covers the problem.
It was a while back but went through all this before. here
Givenergy have some "Approved" apps that they allow with no warranty implications, although it's not published anywhere which is a bit of an oversight.
I believe approved it currently runs to:
GivTCP (both standalone or HA flavour)
Givenergy_Modbus Library (and presumably anything else that runs on top of that although it's getting out of date now)
Richard's "Inverter" App (the BBC Basic one > https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/inverter/id6443976497 )
Presumably @[deleted] 's Inverter Monitor (as it's read only anyway)
However none of those are Givenergy "in house" work (GivTCP presumably get's quite a bit of inside assistance) but if something were to go wrong and roast 1,000's of inverters somehow (so many FW's and registers to consider now), I'm not sure if the stance would change?
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#7Berryfridge
I'm not sure that I can really do anything with the warranty documents I can find anyway;
I don't know anything about China's laws.
#8hoggy
Berryfridge You must have a very early system (<=2020 by any chance) back when the service office was based in Hull.
I won't go into too much detail on the China part as it got me in hot water last time but your warranty should be under the UK umbrella nonetheless.
Berryfridge so it is, thought that would have been updated by now
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#11Berryfridge
Coming at it from a different angle; It seems like GivEnergy might be feeding statistics from my inverter to my energy supplier and I can't find a way to make that stop in the app / cloud dashboard.
Obviously the supplier gets my import and export readings from the smart meter, but they also seem to have my solar generation, consumption, and battery state of charge and I don't really want them to have all that.
#12Cdent
Berryfridge who is your supplier and have you connected them to the GE portal?
#13hoggy
Berryfridge The only ones i can think of are Octopus.
Either you've signed up to the Octopus R&D App at some point,
OR
Your on Octopus intelligent Flux which needs to stay connected to actually get the tariff to work.
I haven't knowingly connected EON to the GE cloud dashboard, but they keep inviting me to use their EON Home web service; I don't recall ever linking it to GE, but when I sign in my statistics are all in there -- I've requested they delete my account, but that doesn't actually say they'll stop getting the data, just that I can't login any more.
There's nothing obvious in GE cloud under account security -- I have no delegated accounts, no API keys or tokens generated -- so I figure EON must have some access via the GE API or something like that. I would love to disconnect them, if that were possible, but I'm thinking that I might just disconenct the inverter from the internet entirely to be sure.
#15Cdent
Berryfridge did e.on install your solar? None of my data goes to Octopus and I have connected the API to my GE account, so it's strange e.on are getting your data without this
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#16Berryfridge
Cdent Yes, EON sold me the solar installation; they contracted a local installer to actually do the work, but I imagine EON are the installer from GE's view.
#17hoggy
Right so there is technically a 3rd route in, if memory serves me it's an OAuth page that just asked for your Givenergy Username & Password to connect to your system and share data. I suspect this is how E.on have done it.
You get the same popup when setting up Intelligent Flux as part of it's onboarding but i've had it before for "something else" I just can't remember what.
It's a fair point, I'm not sure how you revoke those types of connections / access tokens @Mickey (GivEnergy) ?
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#18anglefire
Berryfridge I don't want that to happen and I don't want a backlog of statistics being stored on the device to cause problems by overusing storage.
The inverter doesn't store any historical data (Wish it did!). Not uncommon in commercial metering systems if everything is local, but on remote systems there is usually local storage - but even commercial ones don't treat remote connections if there is a direct connection (as apposed to modem and the like) - I maintain a couple that have the server in one data centre and the data comes from connected sites 20 or 30 miles away.
#19Cdent
Berryfridge that's it then - if e.on are the installer they will have set themselves up access to your data that way, no doubt it'll be hidden in the contract somewhere that it's part of their "monitoring" to ensure there are no issues and the system is performing as expected.
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#20Berryfridge
I had another look in EON Home; there's no way to disconnect my GE account / information from that end and the statistics in there appear go back to 2 days before I signed up. So that's creepy.
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#21deepanshus
hoggy it happens with all GivEnergy system, the installer who commissions your system has full access to your system, including upgrade/logs/state etc.
This is part of the installation process that they will have full control so that they can do remote troubleshooting. i am assuming as E.On installed the system, they have these details.
Just out of curiosity, why are you so concerned if they have details of your solar generation? i upload my details on pvoutput and they are public, anyone can see the usage.
#22hoggy
deepanshus think you’ve tagged the wrong person, I don’t have mine linked to e.on, I have installer access anyway, just curious as to how you revoke the (seldom used) oAuth method of sharing access as I’ve got about 10 floating around from various Beta tests.
Password change presumably appears to be the only realistic way currently.
I’m not precious about my solar data at all, I built an entire public dashboard for it on Terravolt.co.uk
You're right that I shouldn't really be bothered by it, the data isn't hugely meaningful to anybody except me and I do have the option of deleting my login and not seeing it on EON's website.
The idea that an invisible and apparently irrevocable channel exists which might also allow them control over the settings of a high energy machine that's in my house does make me feel very, very uneasy though; So I want to know that I've taken every step possible to protect myself against any mishap or malice.
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#26deepanshus
hoggy just visited Terravolt ! amazing presentation of data .. kudos for your efforts
Berryfridge Its not like they can make it blow up though. Turn it on and turn it off is about the extent of it.
Paranoia has it's place, but I don't think its here!
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#29kram
Personally as it’s my equipment and my network and who knows what people do for a day job….
I do think there should be three modes:
1) It’s cool do what you need
2) Prompt for authorisation before you can do it, but you can as long as I press yarp (backed by certs etc)
3) Get off my land (blocked totally)
I’d probably run in 2, I know of cases where you would need to run in 3 and I guess many would be happy in 1.
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#30anglefire
kram I'm not thinking of accessing my network - only the dongle on my network and hence inverter.
But yes what you suggest seems reasonable - though I don't really care if my inverter data is shared to GE - or anyone else (Just not directly from me live so to speak!)
I would be in the 1 camp as it happens, other caveats applying!
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#31Jack Wilsdon
I've just had this confirmed by support:
Yes, the inverter needs to have a constant internet connection to our servers for us to be able to diagnose and troubleshoot any potential issues. Without the internet for prolonged periods of time, this would affect your warranty, in that we would not be able to do the checks on the system we needed to honour it.
I think I'll be looking elsewhere for an inverter and battery.
Why does Internet access for the system concern you? Other than operating in an environment with no access available, I can see no issues.
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#33Jellybaby
Jack Wilsdon So how do you propose when you call them having trouble that they try and help you if they cannot see what is happening to your system, want them to fly on over in a private chopper and land in front of your house right away?
Unless you go the DIY route most companies have cloud based operating which requires connection to the internet and then if anything goes wrong you will have to wait til an installer has time to get round to you as they wont be of much help most of the time after they got your money.
Still waiting for antenna for my AIO that the installers decided I didn't need connecting despite using wifi, they brought it back when they changed me over to LAN connection but then they took it again and im still waiting for it and I had my system installed in July last year.
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#34alfwro
Berryfridge I did just that (blocked inverter from internet access) however in the latest version of givTCP there is a bug where it fails every 10 min if the inverter is not connected to the internet so for now it is back on. Once that is fixed I’ll go back to my previous setup.
If you are worried about the warranty issue restrict your inverter to i.e. 15 min of internet every 2 h that will lower the resolution of the data they are getting and should satisfy them in case you have to claim warranty.
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#35deepanshus
Jack Wilsdon then you would be missing out on a very fine product... more than the product i really appreciate the community support and the fact that this is all in UK... any other inverter would not have such support and such active forum. whats your concern with the inverter being online? It's easy to control the battery when on the move from the app !
#36nophead
There are inverter settings that my installer and GivEnergy can change that I can't and after the last firmware update some had to be changed. Do people using givTCP have access to those?
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#37Berryfridge
alfwro Allow DNS (UDP going to port 53) from the inverter and block everything else.
