I am due to get a AIO installed this week, and have just been told by my installer that I no longer need to buy the 5y extra warranty on the inverter because - as of today - all Givenergy battery products include a 12y warranty.
Can anyone confirm?
EDIT - Just been sent this - https://givenergy.co.uk/major-announcement-introducing-an-industry-leading-12-year-warranty/
and here is me nearly 2 months in waiting for the extension I paid for still ><
With the trouble im having im actually regretting getting it.
I wonder what gets done at these services? And by whom and at what cost?
"To protect the lifespan of your system, it must also receive a service by GivEnergy year 5, year 8 and year 10."
A bit sad here that only the end of last week was the extended 10 year warranty sorted for the new AIO & Gateway, paid extra for that, I wonder whether this new 12 year warranty would've been retrospective to installations performed recently and not just from today? Edit: I must add on positive note though that this is a great new deal and good going forward!
wilfleek Probably a health check of system to make sure anything that may be deteriorating that far in is found, they say you should be getting your consumer unit checked every 5 years as well to make sure there are no issues.
Barns yes. i am curious to know as well given our system was commissioned on the 7th.
GE AIO Warranty Extension was £475 + VAT (£570) so I am guessing that the overall cost price of an AIO has crept up by around £475....??
dragon2905 if that's the case then I'll sort of feel better about it for my own finances 🙂 but anyway all part of the perils of being an early adopter I guess. Now I just wish they'd fix various issues like the AIO charging beyond max charge level when set, allowing multiple charge time slots in a day (for eg Cosy tariff), etc.
Barns imo considering the AIO unit is brand spanking new those installs should be retroactive at least.
Or perhaps the Health Check covers this cost instead.
Doesn't say what happens if there is an issue at year 5/8/10.
Usually the warranty provides a pro-rata warranty benefit something along the lines of this;
As a "sort of example" lets say it costs £7000 to buy an AIO.
In year 5 your health check shows that you have only 50% battery capacity left your warranty would then cover you for 50% of the cost. Or £3500 in value
In year 8 your health check shows that you have only 40% battery capacity left your warranty would then cover you for 40% of the cost. Or £2800 in value
In year 10 your health check shows that you have only 10% battery capacity left your warranty would then cover you for 10% of the cost. Or £700 in value
Something similar applies to Solar PV Panels and all other manufacturers too.
So remember "THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAI"L (of which there are none to be found currently including number of cycles, forecast annual capacity loss etc etc )
You might want to read the Powerwall warranty, they will provide a new / reconditioned product of equivalent or better functionality or pay for sn equivalent product.
The AIO is a good product and 12years is a good thing, but not everyone offers just partial refunds.
So.... I was about to sort an extended warranty - inverter was commissioned last month, and AIO + GW commissioned last week... are these now under the new 12 year warranty or do I have to shell out extra?
26Left From the document unless you got it commissioned today you are out of luck
Jellybaby I suspect you're right. I'll ask the question of GE directly.
How do I go about buying the extended warranty - from GE direct?
26Left My installers sorted the extended warranty for me via their suppliers whoever they were, took them a few weeks to get it done though as I think there was confusion over what was needed for the new AIO system Vs the older battery systems.
Barns Thanks - my installers are now saying only the inverter can be extended and not the AIO/ Gateway - I've asked them to go check again as that's not what was originally agreed and marketed.
26Left Mine's definitely been extended to 10 years on the AIO and the Gateway - got a fancy certificate PDF plus the dates on the online portal thing under Inverter now have warranty until 2033 for both. I can't really accurately comment on what it's supposed to cost as I believe there was some c*ckup by the suppliers to my installer, who gave one price to them which we paid and then that might not've been correct but they honoured it anyway and it's all gone through now.
Barns Thanks, that's good to know. My installer quoted a price for uplifting the whole GE system (inverter, gateway and AIO), I said I wanted it - so now having to hold them to it! I have sent that email exchange back to them plus the AIO/GW installation pdf which clearly states extendable to 10 years... Not sure they've done many of these, so learning as we go.
More than likely the original extension to 10 years could be the better option if you factor in the potential health care check costs at the required intervals - I'm sure they won't be free!
94jdh Hopefully! I've had no paperwork about the 10 year extension bar a certificate PDF saying it's applied, so I don't know any terms or conditions attached to it. Which isn't ideal. I can't find anything online either.
Barns
I also have the extension and there is no reference to intermediate health checks - only the sliding scale of wear and tear in relation to replacement costs
94jdh I've not even seen this sliding scale thing although it's been alluded to on this forum, no paperwork or anything came to me. Any chance you are able to point to a copy of it somewhere? Did the details come in an info pack or email from GE or something like that?
Barns this is probably the easiest link to it, bear in mind this is for batteries:
LIMITED WARRANTY 2022 - Midsummer Wholesale https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/pdfs/giv-battery-warranty-2022-v3.pdf
94jdh actually yes I'd seen that but that looks much older than the AIO batteries and makes no mention of them? Seeing as they're based on entirely different tech (high voltage rather than low or something?) I was thinking that the various "expected lifetime levels" at 10 years might've varied from those older models. I'd like to see an updated warranty spec that makes direct reference to the AIO battery expected lifetime performance.
94jdh That is presumably what my installer claimed they purchased back in July but im still waiting for confirmation of it going through and I am getting frustrated and mad as I am 1 week away from 60 day time period GE give you and everything is out of my hands and now they chuck in this free warranty to 12 years, as if I wasn't getting angry and frustrated enough with this heat and this system keep crapping out on my and going from 65>4%.
Barns Batteries have a 10 year warranty anyway, the extensions are just for inverter and gateway.
Ask the installer which supplier they paid it to - most go through places like midsummer, ask for a receipt of payment/reference.
In case anyone hasn't spotted the FAQ here -
Are the health checks chargeable?
Yes. We will perform the check remotely, this will entail a £29 + VAT charge for a full system diagnosis. If we need to send out an engineer due to data anomalies, this will cost up to £100 + VAT per visit.
Jellybaby yes, indeed, but the potential exists for there to be different expected minimum remaining battery capacity at 5,10 years between the "old" battery systems and the new AIO battery packs. Maybe the AIO packs should be expected to retain at least 80% capacity by 5 years, for example, not the 70% in the linked document from 2022. So something official and specific about the AIO battery packs and their expected capacity degradation with regards to warranty claims, even if it's saying "it's the same as the old ones", would be welcome.
94jdh I have on two occasions, I sent them an email asking for it again.
kram that's interesting. There is ?NO? "small print" that amends that based on life expectancy, cycles etc etc, if so cool. If I had ever considered purchasing one I would have looked at the warranty/small print closely.
Worth also considering what the cost of a Tesla Powerwall & Gateway is compared to the GE AIO (seems to be around the £9k mark).
The Powerwall is, currently, manufactured using the same 18650 cells (1865-type) that are used in their vehicles (although depending on country of purchase some Model 3 and Y cars now use 2170-type, 4680-type Model Y (Texas) & in the future also Model Y from Germany and new models plus Prismatic cells in entry-level Model 3 and Model Y (I think currently only in China though). Last I checked there was a supply issue with them too as the battery cells are prioritized for use in the vehicles (may or may not be a factor anymore)
Battery Chemistry is LithiumManganeseNickelCobalt (LMNC, this is also part of the reason for higher cost) not LiFePO4 and (at least from a quick search) the upside, energy density isn't really a factor for home storage, and the downsides are more pronounced.
https://soltaro.com/soltaro-batteries-news-archives/nmc-vs-lfp-advantages-disadvantages
Also it is, very, slightly worse in performance (7kW peak, 5kW Continuous) versus the GE AIO (7kW peak, 6kW Continuous)
I am pretty sure that I read somewhere that the Powerwall is made up from used (or sub-standard) Tesla Car Battery Cells (that may or may not be correct though......)
Barns sadly GE product Datasheets are notoriously incorrect/out of date
Jellybaby originally the 2.6, 5.2 and 8.2 batteries only came with a maximum 5 year or X number of cycles warranty (whichever was sooner). The 9.5 always came with a 10 year Unlimited Cycle Warranty.
Seems they have all been upgraded to 12 years, although some Data sheets still quote 10 years which contradicts this.
Giv-Bat 2.6 (Gen 1) - 26MWh (10,000 cycles) / 12 Years
Giv-Bat 5.2 (Gen 1) - 52MWh (10,000 cycles) / 12 Years
Giv-Bat 8.2 (Gen 1) - Unlimited Cycles / 10 Years
Giv-Bat 9.5 (Gen 2) - Unlimited Cycles / 12 Years
There are some very interesting batteries available on other markets - Canadian Solar in the US & Canada, ?EverReady? (the same Black/ Gold as the Duracell batteries) that has been licensed in Australia plus many more that will no doubt arrive on our shores in due course.
dragon2905 From the 11th yes, unfortunately not retroactive
Pretty certain inverter = 5 years and battery = 10 years as standard. Gateway I’m less certain of to be honest.
kram AIO inverter and gateway both had 5 years listed in their details on the online portal until I got the 10 year extension applied, now they both have 10 years.
Powerwall in uk gets 80% capacity in year 10. No usage limit these days.
Price wise, it’s currently cheaper than an AIO, or I wouldn’t be looking.
LFP vs NMC to be honest neither would be inside the house. The PW2 has a thermal cooling/warming loop which is a big plus, particularly in cooler conditions (eg outside) but as you say AIO is 6kW so they’re probably similar at cooler temperatures.
I think PW3 is about to drop and that is supposed to be LFP. Flip side PW2 is well proven and if it goes pop you will probably get a PW3 to replace it. Oh and it can stack already.
Both are good systems, both have positives and negatives, both are better in someways/worse in others and both have the same capacity.
Otherwise I probably prefer the extra control, wife is probably happier with set & forget.
My point on warranty was if it fails in 10 years I don’t want a percentage back, I want a replacement.
kram When I was looking a couple months ago powerwall was thousands over aio unit
Jellybaby Same here, like, many thousands more. And with a huge waiting list from what I could tell (many months). Maybe that's changed totally since June/July, or maybe I was being fobbed off by installers...
Barns Starting to wish I had scrounged up the extra tbh with the troubles I am having with the SOC with the AIO.
It is not reliable in the least especially worrying when its supposed to be home backup when power goes out.
And can’t comment on the AIO as I could never get one installed, but everyone who I’ve spoken to this time round told led me PW was cheaper at the moment and the prices I have been offered are indeed cheaper than I previously got offered for AIO.
Flip side, you get much less control with a PW in terms of what is happening and when and they can have their issues with odd behaviours too.