Octopus Tracker vs Agile?

I have:
8kw pv solar (producing around 6500kw per annum)
5kw Hybrid Gen1 inverter - max charge/discharge rate 2.6kwh
3 x 8.2kw Gen1 batteries = 24.6kw capacity
16kw LG ASHP (using around 7000kwh per annum)
E/V (say 2500kwh pa)

Grid import circa 10,000kwh pa
Grid export circa 1500kwh pa

I'm currently on Octopus Tracker and Fixed Export (15p) which works well. Saving Sessions have been manipulated for a credit of £185 over this winter.

Using https://www.octopriceuk.app/compare which uses my own usage data there is little to choose between Agile and Tracker.

But I suspect if I can timeshift sufficient usage to avoid peaks and maximise filling batteries at night I may be able to make a useful saving.

1. As far as I can see I can only schedule one charge/discharge period daily? or am I missing something?
2. So I'm wondering if I make a forced discharge of batteries to house from say 3.30pm to 9.30pm (6 hours = max 15.6kwh) and charge from grid say midnight to 6am (6 hours)... will I make a worthwhile saving?
3. I will still hold around 40% for outages (which are rare anyway)
   4.

I'm not sure how easy it is to calc the potential savings and may simply have to try it. Perhaps at a total guess I would save ave 2p (vs Tracker) on my grid to house usage? and 7p (vs Tracker) on my grid to battery usage?
say 7000kwh @ 2p = £140
say 3000kwh @ 7p = £210
Total £350 - which is worthwhile but then would be offset by losing out on Saving Sessions.. if its run in future.. in same way.

I don't have any other Home Automation and don't want to get toooo complicated. LG ASHP was installed 2020 with software 3.05.5a which does not seem to integrate very easily afaik.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience, particular comments or suggestions to help avoid reinventing the wheel!

Tim Adams wrt one time slot on schedule this is correct for Gen 1 inverters, to get more you would certainly need to look into the automation route with something like Home Assistant, Octopus R&D or Wonder Watt, the latter two needing no hardware or expertise from your side other than signing up and inputting API keys.

As for the exporting and importing, all depends on the prices but if the averages are as you say then that's a decent saving to be had.

Tim Adams As you say, a problem with using your own data for a price comparison is that you are on a flat(-ish) tariff, and have no incentive to time-shift usage away from peak-rate. So a straightforward comparison could make Agile look bad if you don't avoid import at the worst times.

Is your EV (or chargepoint) compatible with IOG? That's another option to consider. (I do a very low mileage, but I've been keeping an eye on the comparisons, and IOG has, on average, been cheaper overnight than Agile. (But Agile is, of course, much better for most daytime hours.)

You have plenty of battery storage - is the discharge rate adequate to keep on top of the ASHP, or do you have to draw from grid? 16kW output could require 5kW or more input?

You don't have to stick to one tariff all year round. Agile (or maybe Cosy) for winter, Flux for summer ? A downside of Tracker in that regard is that they really don't want you hopping in and out of that one - 9 months wait between leaving and rejoining.

If your EV is not IOG compatible, and you're not tied to Octopus, it seems that EON Next Drive is quite generous - 7 hours overnight at 8p (whole house, I think), with 16.5p export. But, like Go, more expensive daytime import.

(Is your 8kW solar all in one direction, or an E/W split? I wasn't aware that gen-1 hybrid could accept that much power. Perhaps you just tolerate some clipping.)

losing out on Saving Sessions

they only run for 3 months. and only look back 60 days. So exporting only over the summer shouldn't impact this too much. And just avoiding 5pm-7pm in winter, perhaps? [You presmably have less available to export during the winter anyway.]

DD good questions & input - thanks! in line answers:

Is your EV (or chargepoint) compatible with IOG? That's another option to consider. (I do a very low mileage, but I've been keeping an eye on the comparisons, and IOG has, on average, been cheaper overnight than Agile. (But Agile is, of course, much better for most daytime hours.)

Yes it is compatible with IOG. Useful thought to consider

You have plenty of battery storage - is the discharge rate adequate to keep on top of the ASHP, or do you have to draw from grid?

I definitely would need to draw from grid. Cold days can exceed 100kwh
but averages might be say
50kwh in Dec/Jan
40kwh in Nov/Feb
30kwh in Oct/Mar
I might need to consider holding a smaller reserve against outages as they are rare.
I guess i could also make sure the house is warmed up a bit more overnight
Together it might mean the batteries suffice for quite a lot of the time

16kW output could require 5kW or more input?

correct
I use weather compensation and would say most of the time the draw is within 2.6kwh but definitely exceeds sometimes

You don't have to stick to one tariff all year round. Agile (or maybe Cosy) for winter, Flux for summer ? A downside of Tracker in that regard is that they really don't want you hopping in and out of that one - 9 months wait between leaving and rejoining.

Yes, its something i'm looking at as well.

If your EV is not IOG compatible, and you're not tied to Octopus, it seems that EON Next Drive is quite generous - 7 hours overnight at 8p (whole house, I think), with 16.5p export. But, like Go, more expensive daytime import.

Noted. I'm inclined to stick with Octopus unless clear benefit of moving

(Is your 8kW solar all in one direction, or an E/W split? I wasn't aware that gen-1 hybrid could accept that much power. Perhaps you just tolerate some clipping.)

I should have been clearer! 6kw is E facing, low pitch and on the Givenergy inverter. The other 2kw is South facing and on separate Solaredge inverter. So I think there is minimal (if any) clipping.

losing out on Saving Sessions
they only run for 3 months. and only look back 60 days. So exporting only over the summer shouldn't impact this too much. And just avoiding 5pm-7pm in winter, perhaps? [You presmably have less available to export during the winter anyway.]

Yes, almost zero exports from solar between say late Sep to late Mar. Only exports in that 6 months tend to be battery dump during Saving Sessions

Tim Adams Tim, I have a similar setup to you although a bit more solar panels and only half as much battery storage. I have 2 x 9kW LG ASHP’s with an awful user interface and no remote control (unless I go down the modbus connection route).

For winter I faced similar thinking about how to buy my electricity cheaply enough to run the heat pump as it (a) consumes more than my battery capacity and (b) peak current draw can exceed my two inverter throughput, especially if something else high load is on like the oven in the evening.

I did a load of spreadsheet calculations and ruled Cosy out as whilst it has two cheap import periods the rest of the time its relatively expensive. Tracker and Agile came out as the best options and in the end I went for Agile using Predbat to manage the charging and discharging. If you’re not into home automation then Wonderwatt (or I think My Energy Optimiser will also have soon) has the capability to plan charging in the cheaper periods.

Through the winter I kept an eye in the Octo Compare app as to the prices of the other tariffs. It only compares current import profile so its not perfect comparison of how you might change your usage with a different tariff, but it showed that I was right to change off Flux for the winter and Cosy wasn’t a great deal for me either.
Quite a lot of the time Agile was the cheapest option, but there were some periods especially when it was very cold where Tracker was cheaper. However Octopus revised their formulae for Tracker in December 2023 and increased the Agile standing charge slightly. The new Tracker is nowhere near as competitive as the old one, and comparing to the new one, for me, Agile was always cheaper.

I have been able to export quite a bit as well during the winter as when agile rates are lower than about 13p (15p - conversion losses) its profitable to import and then export. In February for example I exported 246kWh for £41 income which is a decent offset to the 1022kWh I imported for £134.
Average import rate last month therefore of around 13p on Agile. I think Tracker its around 18p.

The 9 month lock out of Tracker was another reason I didn’t chose it as I couldn’t swap back for next Winter.

I’m now going to look at my options for the summer, whether to stay on Agile + 15p fixed export, or change back to Flux.

Dan EV Solar on YouTube has an interesting video last week comparing Flux vs Octopus Go for the summer. With moderate EV use they came out almost identical cost so he’s elected to stay on Go.