Ok firstly, trying to find forum rules on this. Any got a link to forum rules?
Secondly, what value do you all think a used AC3 unit has? 2 ac3's to be correct, 1 3 years old the other 1 year old. Also value in batteries a 8.2kw 3 years old and and 9.5kw 1 year old. Thoughts on this one?
Third, if you were trying to sell them what platform would you use?
Unless your willing to "bend" the modbus library to recommission I feel the inverters have a lot less value than the batteries as they need installer accounts for the fancy stuff (I.e you run them purely via GivTCP with no portal or app)
As such the inverters don't seem to hold money too well.
Batteries seem to though (seemingly above what the current £/kWh of say new Pylontechs) so I guess the closed ecosystem pays off there instead.
As ever, it's what people are willing to pay - suggest plugging in your kit 1 by 1 into eBay and ticking the "include sold items" and see where the land lies.
FB marketplace seems cheaper (£250-350 for an AC3) but equally not a lot of protection for buyers so risk factored in.
Don't forget - the dongles are a bit harder to comeby these days so don't let those go for nothing. EM115 worth something too.
Not many couriers will like loading lithium into their vans so postage costs will be somewhat of a additional cost if being truthful as to what they are handling, so collection probably better. (Batteries are a lot more fragile than people think so I'd be wary of anything less than a pallet for shifting batteries around the country unless you saved the original packaging)
What you moving to - another brand or the AIO?
(I don't think there are any rules here, beyond common sense of not being a knob to anyone.)
hoggy I was looking at dual AIO's but after looking at ebay (I don't use it since losing 100's a few years back) my entire system, dual ac3's and 17.7kw of batteries is only worth between £3000 - £3500 in total. For £1950 you can get new open box AC3 and 8.2kwh (one sold May 2024)
Tad scary based on what I paid to current value. The kit new today is around £8600 + vat so just by opening the box cuts the value by 66%? Oh well :-(
For note, this idea started when I was offered £3500 for a single AC3 and my 9.5kw. But a week later I spoke with the person and they didn't really understand enough about it. They wanted a solution to go off grid with their new custom build house. I looked at their energy usage with them (large 4 bed house) and he'd need more like 30kw+ of batteries to go off grid. That was my basis for looking/asking!
THALL Ev man did mention on the ‘new GivEnergy warehouse’ video that they are due to be launching a reconditioned kit scheme so might be worth asking Giv what trade in they would give?
Hogg alludes to it, but to be more explicit, the challenge with GivEnergy kit is that its a closed installation system, it has to be a registered GivEnergy installer to commission the kit, register it on the portal, etc. So you have to find an installer that is willing to do that.
Same if you add extra kit to what you already have, if you use a different installer they have to take over the commissioning of your entire installation.
You could consider retaining the AC3 alongside just one AIO. That’s what Oli “speak to the geek” did, there’s a youtube video on how he did it and how he stops the cross charging. You’ll get far more value from the kit and extra battery storage at a far cheaper price than if you bought entirely new.
THALL I suppose it depends on what is making you 'itchy' to upgrade. To all purposes the AIO is two AC3 in a box (based on charge rate/burst rate) so is it because its the latest thing or do you feel the existing twin setup doesn't suit your loads / PV production / storage ability / off grid capability.
Basically what I'm saying is would you be served better by investing in a further AC3 and battery (ironically even second hand!) plus some EPS works in the house to your critical loads.
P.S - we don't know what Gen 4 holds yet so there is that to ponder.
geoffreycoan I have asked Giv or various people at giv. The trade up is real but has no hard data with it yet. I have a feeling it will be for inverters only, hybrid gen 1 to 3 as an example.
My local installer is happy to disconnect my kit and reconnect else where. As I understand it owner information can be charged, the item not transferable is my extended warranty which is limited to original install location. So my AC3's for example, 3 years and 1 year old still have 2 years and 4 years.
The only person I know with AC3 and AIO combined is Paul @ giv. But he only has that working via HA and custom scripts. But I will have a look for that youtube video. I will be interested if an Gateway is included. I have an offer for an AIO + gateway fully installed for £6400 if I could keep an AC3 with the 9.5kw that would give me 9kw charge discharge, whole home failover and 22kw storage for £4400? However having gone through the testing of AC3 load balancing it might be more hassle than its worth. But worth watching a video for :-)
THALL there is Polar to consider - 6kw charge rate same as an AiO...
hoggy hmmm
Also in reply to you last reply. The £3500 offer is what started me looking. But that was misinformed. Dual AIO's offered who home failover not a single circuit on EPS, increasing charge discharge from 6kw to 12 + burst and increase storage from 17.7kw to 27kw.
Sadly wall space is limited, a 3rd ac3 and battery isn't viable. Dual AIO's would fit the space, though not measured up for the gateway yet. But costs don't make sense now I have seen the ebay prices. Selling my 17.7kw solution for £3000 - £3500 (at best) then dishing out £10000 on top for the above gains is a lot.
Question, do I need the upgrade? - No.
Question, why did you look at upgrading? - Purely a silly value offer for half my kit
Second gen AIO will be powerwall 3 spec. 11kw discharge 5kw charge I expect
An 11kW output is because it’s hybrid though, so I can only guess they’ll turn the AIOinto a hybrid….
Oh hang on….
A bit cheeky but:- if you give the user account login/password away with the inverter, then it should keep working even without recommissioning. 😃
I upgraded HY5 from gen1 to 3 and recently sold the gen1 on ebay for a massive £350 (so about 25% of cost after 1yr) ... a lot less than I hoped (circa £600). I believe this loss is 100% because of the closed installer system and the installers I have spoken to not being willing to use secondhand kit.
Regarding AIO, when I did the upgrade I was told AIO couldn't be installed more than a few metres from the point the mains enters the house, which in my case effectively meant I couldn't install one. Why would this be when the HY5 et al can be installed much further away?
Regarding AIO, when I did the upgrade I was told AIO couldn't be installed more than a few metres from the point the mains enters the house, which in my case effectively meant I couldn't install one. Why would this be when the HY5 et al can be installed much further away?
Sounds like your installer did not want to run a cable. My system comes into the house under the stairs. My AIO is out in the garage. 2 x (correct amp rated) armored cable runs between the house and Garage to the Gateway. One for house supple in and one to the House CU. See pic at Main fuse entry.
Daveb01
My installer ran a single SWA multi core. It's quite a substantial cable, but then I've worked in Stone Quarries with some really really chunky cables between the Generates and the Stone crushing plant. My kit was installed in November and the SWA was dropped off at my house the night before install. I stored it next to a large central heating radiator instead of leaving it in the cold outhouse.
Fair enough... my installer described it as a GivEnergy restriction, but perhaps it was more nuanced than that 🙂
Seems he wasn’t being honest. My gateway is also under the stairs with my consumer unit and the AIO’s are in the garage and my tails run all the way from outside to under my stairs.
JasonF Wth my installation all the new kit (AIO, HY5, Gateway) is in the garage with a really thik 4 core AWS running all the way to the CU about 30-40 meters away
Before I get moaned at, yes i can see no one has posted on this thread since August 2024..... However I just had my home valued as considering a move and had a lengthy chat about renewables adding house value.
So for info I have
43 panels, 3 solis inverters
3x ac3's
1x 8.2kw battery 2x 9.5kw battery
Estate agent says this has added around £5000 to the value of my home. I am not joking, his exact words were "At best the panels add around £5k to the valuation" Apparently having solar pv is purely a tick item, if i had less or more panels it wouldn't affect the value. Shame I can't easily remove some panels, however all the batteries and ac3's could come with me ;-) I assumed having a house that paid the occupants to live there would be worth more...... hey ho
The general public are fools, they don't realise the benefits of buying a house with solar.
Or perhaps they're not fools and want the solar but don't want to pay for it!
Plus there's no guarantee on how well the system works it at all. And they may prefer a different supplier (e.g. they might not like Musk). And they might not like the idea of having a dangerous big battery in their house/garage/garden. 🤣
I would definitely take the battery with me.
They can keep the solar and inverter.
THALL Googling it, I got two conflicting answers about solar panels adding value
(US) Forbes said that panels add about 4% to your house value and they tend to sell faster
Which said (2017) that two thirds of estate agents said that it makes no difference to house value and just 8% said it added value.
(but this is a few years ago, attitudes to solar have changed)
Eco Experts (probably biased!) said a 2024 survey said that panels would increase the value by 14%
I'd definitely take the batteries and AC3's with you, they are the expensive bits and hard to recoup the investment cost. Would be inclined to get a different estate agent view, £5k seems unreasonably low
TX200 The general public just wants something which works and doesn't require regular/any attention. Anything more than that & it'll put as many people off as it interests.
That's why housebuilders just install a basic inverter and small (2-4kW) PV array. No controls required, both MPANs setup on the smartmeter, sun shines you save/get money. Simple.
Vestas That's why housebuilders just install a basic inverter and small (2-4kW) PV array. No controls required, both MPANs setup on the smartmeter, sun shines you save/get money. Simple.
I don’t see it as positive as that, I see it that house builders are doing the bare minimum they can do to improve the EPC. Solar panels improves the EPC, so they fit solar panels and can market the house as green, Eco or whatever.
If they really cared about delivering a green house it would be super-insulated well above minimum standards, triple glazed, as many solar panels as practical, an ASHP or AAHP, etc etc. There are of course some like that but they are a rareity.
Generally builders do the least they can get away with until government regulates them to do more.
geoffreycoan yeah it frustrating to see new houses with a token effort - fill the roof!
geoffreycoan Googling it, I got two conflicting answers about solar panels adding value
I have a child who is a RICS Registered Valuer for residential property. I asked "When doing a resi val what value is given to solar panels/battery?". The answer: "De minimis I believe is the technical term. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t add value, just that values don’t bother capturing it"
(To be clear, this is probably in the context of valuing a portfolio of residential property, rather than an individual house - which is not what they do.)
So that's ok then 😃
geoffreycoan I agree with you in general.
However that's what people want to buy for PV.
People don't want to buy batteries - and they really don't want to buy old batteries.
Inverter/PV panels is pretty much 25 year fit and forget, like most of the other electrics on a new-build (once snagged of course).
PianSom well if ever we move home I’m getting the ladder out and taking the panels down then !
I agree batteries are more complicated tech, been OP’s on here who have bought homes and then have to deal with flat batteries, connecting them to their new wifi, etc. Solar panels are fit and forget but if they add limited value, I’ll take them with me.
But having moved to this house 17 years ago, had it extended, Mrs C is definitely not wanting to move ever again, so its a theoretical discussion
There seem to be two threads of explanation from land agents. One that solar panels add 'some' value to a property, especially if easy to manage and can demonstrate the cash benefits delivered. Therefore smaller and simpler systems will be easier to adopt, and perhaps more acceptable.
The second is that where the panels are visible from the road 'the kerb appeal' then may detract from the property value. I gather the older blue panels (polycristalline) are seen as less appealing than the black (mono crystalline), and it depends on how well they 'sit' on the roof [symmetry and neatness]. I would imagine a larger and more complex system would put off many people [the non-technical and that is the majority], or at least not be attractive i.e. seen as having value to the purchaser.
I guess the 'increase' in EPC score from any solar/battery installation may increase the overall value, but probably not by the cost of a new install. We did it to become a little ecological and more efficient but I doubt we will recoup the outlay before we croak. Still we tried.
The_Engineer some good points about kerb appeal
are you tracking your payback of your panels and installation?
I capture monthly import, export, solar generation and house load (all of which are in the portal). I add in import and export £ and then can calculate what I would have cost to import to meet the house load without having the solar.
This gives me a notional payback per month. Not perfect but it gives me a handle on it
I’m on track to fully recoup the cost of the solar and batteries in about 7 years which seems a reasonable payback to me.
TX200 a potential problem if a new estate has all houses fully decked out with panels: on a sunny day, there could be a huge amount of export which could overwhelm the grid connection.
While it has to be able to supply whole estate, the houses are unlikely to be drawing peak load simultaneously - diversity of something like that. But export is likely to be matched.
We're in the tail end of some building works on our 1980 home (phase 2 nearing completion....)
Along with Solar, hybrid inverter and battery, we've also done:
We've stuck with a new ish 92% efficient gas combi boiler fitted in 2019 Worcester Bosch Style 8000
We run it at a 50C Central Heating flow temp.
All new double (and larger sized) radiators to future proof
Had the extension floor (6m * 6m) insulated with 150mm cellotex and wet underfloor heating.
All new windows with A rating and 28mm pane gaps.
All North, East and West facing exterior walls have had an extra 25mm of cellotex and then 15mm plasterboard & plastered on the interior walls (walls are now all 360mm+ thick with a minimum of 125mm insulation).
Then upstairs inter floor spaces insulated with 150mm rockwool, thicker 22mm floorboards and then thicker underlay/carpet fitted.
Finally, an extra 200-300mm of loft insulation on top of the 200mm we'd had put in 15 years ago.
As an added 'luxury' we've also fitted a 5kW multifuel stove.
I'd like to think we are getting close to as efficient as we could be.
I doubt we will ever see this money back in house value though. This estate seems to be 30-40% lower valued than the new builds nearby, even though we have garden and views
So my 2 Penny's worth from my experience buying and selling quite a few houses.
People are willing to pay for things they want or like. So if they’re looking for a house with solar and batteries they will pay a bit more for it. If you do the math and include an explanation of how much your DD is today you may get a good price. So my DD is £1, I would say to them I pay £12 a year for all my Electric and Gas, and my current credit is £300.
If your house is worth say £500,000 and you want 10k for the Solar that is 2%. I would tell the agent that I want to add 2% to his recommendation ??
I have also come across people that can not see past things and walk away e.g the lounge is painted bright red or yellow, instead of discussing the overall space and what they can do with it, they just say they don’t like the house because of the red lounge.
If you’re in a hurry to move then people get to hear this and offer a lower price, if you have no time limit you can stick to the price and wait (someone will come along). One other thing I have learned from my mate that is a car salesman (sorry person), people are addicted to a discount, so if you want say 20k for the car don’t start at 20k, start at 25k and reduce it by 5k, only for genuine people wanting to buy. If they want to buy the house they always come back for a second look.
Sorry guys that was more than 2p worth perhaps 10p 👍😎🏆
wrighar Then upstairs inter floor spaces insulated with 150mm rockwool, thicker 22mm floorboards and then thicker underlay/carpet fitted.
Sounds like you have really future-proofed your home energy wise, although a heat pump would have been the final choice to make instead of a gas boiler. Just curious why you went for a new gas boiler rather than a heat pump; you would have got the grant and with all those energy upgrades you should have found it very efficient to run.
I'm no expert, but one thing highlighted, I don't think there is any (energy) value in insulating between the floors. There is a noise transmission benefit of course but you want to insulate the outside edges of your home and let the core come to a consistent temperature. If you insulate between the floors this affects the ability of the house to achieve this. There's a heat geek video on why you shouldn't insulate all the radiator pipework in the floor for the same reasons.
Nice wood burner, we have one and it really chucks out the heat. Get one of those thermo-piezzo fans that sits on top, its powered by the heat of the stove and really makes a difference.
I do hope that is cement board all around your wood burner, not plasterboard...
[unknown]
The gas boiler went in 6 years ago in phase 1 when half the house was still energy leaky with small old rads. There wasn't a grant for ASHP, and I wasn't convinced the tech was there then.
The inter floor is more noise control from the children elephants, but also trying to get each room to be its own environment without downstairs leaking up.
Peltier fan is on its way, and chamber is cementboard on steel framing. Oak beam is here and will go on in May after plastering.
All HETAS approved. :-)
geoffreycoan
The gas boiler went in 6 years ago in phase 1 when half the house was still energy leaky with small old rads. There wasn't a grant for ASHP, and I wasn't convinced the tech was there then.
The inter floor is more noise control from the children elephants, but also trying to get each room to be its own environment without downstairs leaking up.
Peltier fan is on its way, and chamber is cementboard on steel framing. Oak beam is here and will go on in May after plastering.
30mm granite hearth and 25mm slate behind.
All HETAS approved. :-)
[unknown] I'm an engineer, so I'm inherently unable not to track it. I have been modelling systems since before Visicalc, so, for me, just another set of spreadsheets, and yes it will pay for itself at some point. Done against a discounted cash flow it just lengthens the breakeven point. Still it's a good thing to do for the planet, even if it doesn't.
geoffreycoan I'm an engineer, so I'm inherently unable not to track it. I have been modelling systems since before Visicalc, so, for me, just another set of spreadsheets, and yes it will pay for itself at some point. Done against a discounted cash flow it just lengthens the breakeven point. Still it's a good thing to do for the planet, even if it doesn't.
My impression is that most people don’t understand solar or see the value in it. I spoke to some people who’d just bought a new house which had solar panels: they had no idea if the panels were PV or thermal, or indeed what those terms meant.
If a house was desirable enough to be going to a sealed bids scenario than the solar might give an informed person a reason to bid more, but otherwise there are so many other desirability and negotiation factors going into the price paid it’s hard to see it adding any quantifiable market value. And that’s before the mortgage surveyor has had a look.