FYI if you are still using Gas

Hi all,

I have just got an email from octopus to renew my Gas Tariff, I have been using Gas Tracker as Octo Price was saying this was the cheapest.

They are putting the standing charge up, so posted this fyi.

We explored the option of switching to a heat pump, now that we have solar, but until our boiler bites the dust, we just couldn't make it stack up. The issue seems to be that electric prices are linked to gas prices. This link seems unreasonable now that we are heading towards a high proportion of cheaper renewables. If electricity would become proportionally cheaper than gas then we would make the switch.
On a separate note, I was disappointed to read that shareholders are voting against energy producers investing in wind farms due to lack of profit.

Henry3rd That’s not an uncommon analysis. A ‘standard’ heat pump install will have a coefficient of performance of around 2.5-3.5 and since gas prices are about 1/3 of electricity prices the running costs will be about the same and you’ve still got the capital cost to overcome.

A well installed heat pump should achieve a coefficient of performance of 4 or 5 so will be cheaper to run, but still got to overcome that capital outlay. For most people it’s not worth spending the money until the boiler dies and needs replacing anyway.

Our own move to a heat pump was triggered by our oil tank failing and the building regulations not permitting a replacement tank to be sited so close to buildings or boundary fences, so making replacement very difficult and intrusive. We also decided to take advantage of the RHI grant that was available at the time which was more generous than the Boiler Upgrade Scheme that’s now offered.

I would highlight two other things with the economics of a heat pump that for some people will sway them to get one before their gas boiler fails: firstly the government grant won’t be here forever and at the moment that makes a big difference to the upgrade cost, for some people its free or a small amount of money.
Secondly you can generate, store and export your own electricity but not gas or oil so a heat pump with solar can result in zero annual bills - good if you are retiring or just want to reduce your monthly outgoings.

My annual bill is zero (in fact for the first year of solar export was -£10, I think it’ll be higher this year) and my ‘upgrade’ cost will be about £3,500 after the RHI grant is fully paid

But it’s not an option for everyone. There are also practical issues like needing space for the external unit and the hot water tank

geoffreycoan Agreed, it was so marginal for us and we realise the clock is ticking for the grant. We decided to see how the solar went (much better than expected as the proposal was based on a fixed tariff rather than agile and predbat.) We shall revisit in spring.

Henry3rd but until our boiler bites the dust,

One thing to consider is that the lead time is probably a lot longer for heat pump than simply dropping in a replacement gas boiler. So if you do wait until it actually breaks, and that's during heating season, you may have little choice but to remain on gas.

If it's a condensing boiler, wonder if it's worth looking into upgrading radiators in preparation, which could reduce flow temperature for existing system, and save gas in the meantime?

Henry3rd geoffreycoan
A good summary of economies of moving to a heat pump.
Heat Geek now guarantee a COP >4

On installing a heat pump, you may be able to remove gas.
You will then save a year's standing charges, in excess of £100 per year. See the convenient post with gas prices at the top: Daveb01

Also, consider the unit price comparison when using a smart tariff.
I have been on Agile for 11 months and my average import rate is 10.7p.
It has been higher recently but not far off mid teens.
This is about 2/3rd the SVT rate for electricity of about 25p/unit.
My average rate of 10.7 is less than half the SVT rate.

Rob

Ours broke and was an integrated boiler and tank. Heat pump surveys happened but prices came back at about 5.5-6k after the grant and even octopus gave a similarly high price.

Our boiler had been running at 50 except when really cold (windy and substantially below zero) when it got nudged up to 55 for an occasional day.

We had been trying for 6 months, to get decent quotes and struggled for a location to install, so when the boiler failed we gave up.

I put in a 200L water tank design for heat pumps (3m high gain coil) and have put a new gas boiler in.

That's currently on opentherm with load compensation but depending on how it goes it could end up going over to weather comp. So far however load compensation keeps the boiler ticking over at 30 degree flow temperatures and it’s cheaper than the heat pump calculations suggest it would be with a cop of 4.

It has been massively frustrating and there are a number of stupid conditions on the grant which meant it just didn’t work. Fingers crossed they’ll sort out some of the planning headaches too as if it was only a few hundred to change now, I’d consider it.

Gas advantage however was we still had heat and cooking with minimal drain from the battery during the red weather warning and the rest.

Rbor I was attracted to Heat Geek after seeing their youtube videos. I started our journey with them in August. I paid the full £3k+ deposit 2 months ago. There's almost zero communication from them. 2 weeks ago I asked if the DNO was the reason they'd not 'bothered' me since I paid them and, 2 days later, they confirmed. 2 hours later I received DNO approval: My suspicion is my order had been forgotten. Still no installation date forthcoming.
This month the gas boiler is making strange noises. If that fails in the meantime all this will be for nothing and I'm a tad unhappy.

kram Gas advantage however was we still had heat and cooking

Plus no dependancy on a single source of energy. I'm still trying to decide whether the HP route is a good idea or not!

thevilla My suspicion is my order had been forgotten. Still no installation date forthcoming.

Not good when you are at the "I may purchase" stage

CW Plus no dependancy on a single source of energy. I'm still trying to decide whether the HP route is a good idea or not

Why worry about a single source of energy? For years we have driven diesel or petrol cars and never worried about them being a single source of energy. I doubt you have a coal fire in your house just in case there is an issue with the gas supply, and most people don’t have a standby generator to guard against power cuts (although home batteries can now do this as a side benefit).

Long term electric and decarbonisation is the way the world is going, it won’t be for everyone, space and installation difficulties will rule it out for some homes but for the majority electric is definitely the direction of travel and gas boilers will be phased down.
Pay only one standing charge, have the ability to generate your own fuel, all good reasons to change.

As I said before, the grants won’t last forever. Once the industry gets enough momentum like happened for EV’s and Solar Panels the government subsidies will be phased out. Prices will drop with mass adoption so it’s a balance as to whether to pay now with the grant or pay for the entire cost in the future which could well be lower.

I've had an interesting journey this year. My kit consists of 14 panels, an 8.2 kWh and a 9.5 kWh battery and a Gen 1 inverter. Last year I had a survey done by Octopus for a heat pump. They were very good at pointing out all the problems and a quick calculation suggested I'd have to spend several thousand pounds just to get the house in a position to accept a heat pump - so decided not to proceed.
This year, as my gas boiler was getting a bit old - and Home Serve had doubled their charges - I asked British Gas to quote for a nice new efficient gas boiler. They explained that, due to new regulations, they could not fit a new one in the same place (it has had a gas boiler there for over twenty years) so I'd have to reconfigure my kitchen - again costing several thousand pounds in addition to the cost of the boiler.
As I've been on Agile for well over a year and my effective electricity tariff was actually negative, I really wanted to try and reduce my direct use of fossil fuels - namely gas, so I decided to go for a modulating electric boiler - not ideal but at least I would be reducing my dependency on fossil fuels.
It was fitted in September and the first thing I noticed was silence.
The figures have been interesting to say the least. The cost has increased - mainly due to the poor weather conditions and the effect they had on the tariff. However, the change to the overall number of kWh used has reduced considerably compared to last year. My November use dropped by 23% and December dropped by 30%. I'm looking forward to what the January statement is going to reveal.
I also had a log burner fitted to replace a gas fire so the only gas I am still using is via the hob. As they are now thinking of rolling standing charges into tariffs I may wait before switching to an induction hob - although that is still on the cards.
I'll stick with Agile for the moment as Octopus compare still shows it to be the best - although I will review next year.
The real killer is the 4 to 1 ratio of the electricity vs gas charges - surely, if the Government is serious then that will have to change.

geoffreycoan I doubt you have a coal fire in your house

Actually we do 😃 not specifically in case the gas went but a few years ago before we had any solar, we did experience quite a few power cuts and of course the heating goes out as there is no power for the pump - during those times we were able to light a fire and keep warm! So in a similar situation now, there wouldn't be a problem keeping the heating on as the solar/battery set-up could keep the pump going for a very long time, whereas if we go all electric then keeping a heat pump running would quickly run the battery down (and hence my indecision)

CW

When the boiler went an air to air heat pump kept the house plenty warm enough, but as the tank was integrated there was no hot water.

Running a gas boiler is probably 250-500w all in depending on the boiler/pump/etc which would mean 24-48 of heating draw on an AIO. In reality that could be a lot longer with limited running, higher flow temperatures and a bit of luck from solar topping up.

A 6kW heat pump is probably pulling 1.5-2kW, so you’re looking 6-8 hours.

That said, the boilers can be loud , complicated and have other down sides. Something I’m not a fan of is the now seemingly common annual heat pump service that costs similar amounts or more than a gas service.