Now that Givenergy have spawned PolarESS with a no portal and pay-per-month App for management, has anyone had enough experience or motivation to work on a PolarESS-TCP or equivalent?
Also, is there any compatibility between PolarESS inverters and batteries and GE batteries? The only thing I've spotted in the datasheets seems to imply that the PolarESS talk with CAN Bus.
I've actually got some 19" rack space that could usefully be filled...
Someone tried vanilla GivTCP on it to no avail. Given the dongle looks identical, I believe they've just disabled local access though the dongle itself, so perhaps just shoving a Givenergy one in is all that is required to enable local control (at the cost of losing external app access)
Battery wise, they say they've developed their own bms, that seems an expensive way of doing things so is either:
A) The 3rd Gen Giv BMS that's found in the new 9.5 and 5.12 packs (as the Chinese Giv website says they too can talk over Canbus)
B) their own BMS design.
I know what my money is on....
Likewise I don't doubt the internals on their inverters are much different from gen3. The IP65 version from Polar even comes in the same box.
But, nobodies really tried yet as I don't think there's many actually fitted.
So a bit more digging.
Dongles - Polar use a different port to GivTCP's 8899 BUT over on Facebook someone just changed it to 8899 and it worked.
So, all warranty issues a side, a simple fork of GivTCP to use a different port would likely be all that is needed in theory.
Equally, someone has written some code to capture data being sent to/from portal locally and forward it on to GivTCP which is another route (but read only)
Battery wise, looking at the firmware pack on Polar, the BMS uses fw numbering (inc. Inverters) the same as Gen 3 BMS (4008) so I do believe it is using a Giv BMS inside. Just seems Polar utilise the Can side for master, even though slaves look to use the rs485 side to talk to each other just like giv use.
I doubt however that it would just straight up "work" on a Giv Inverter as it would surely cannibalise sales but equally I thought that locking out local access would be a little more sophisticated than changing the dongles port in plain text available to users ...so who knows.
@Rubikcube you may be interested in the "port" part of this convo.
Note - I've not looked into Giv/Polar stance on local controls - if unfavourable perhaps a pop up "are you sure" Message may be required if changing to the Polar port.
There seemed to be a commitment, a while back, to make sure users had some form of local access in case Giv ever went bump.
Yes, their app has local access, but it first checks who you are (so it doesn't work if their end is down).
I think I'd be nervous about buying something that has no form of local access. But people don't necessarily think of that when buying such kit.
TX200 To be fair, Polar-ESS are upfront about no local access -
https://polar-ess.co.uk/polar-ess-part-of-the-givenergy-group/
Polar ESS (China) are not letting on who's inverters their batteries also support ("PERFECT COMPATIBILTY - works seamlessly with a variety of other famous inverters")
I did enquire, first to be told that they only work with Polar, then when pushed as to why it says the opposite on their site, deflected me to Givenergy support (who will obviously not state who else's inverters Givenergy BMS's work with)
hoggy That’s marketing speak on the website.
Same as the ‘fast single-person installation’. I know the new 9.5 battery is lighter than my original one, but I saw how the two installers struggled to line it up and hang it on the wall bracket when they fitted it. I’m sure its over the single person weight limit that health and safety advise
Wow, PolarESS is GivEnergy offspring? Offering same products on the same market, competing with each other? What's the point?
bRhFDKtjRMK9 Wow, PolarESS is GivEnergy offspring? Offering same products on the same market, competing with each other? What's the point?
Different price and feature-point. GivEnergy range is being focussed on the premium end of the market, compete with Tesla Powerwall etc I guess, the PolarESS is being sold as a cheaper alternative, with less features such as the app and portal being paid-for subscription options, only a 5 year warranty rather than a 12 year one.
Price-wise, Polar 3.6 hybrid inverter £2291 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/Polar-ESS-storage/polar-3600w-hybrid-bundle
5.2 battery £1197 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/Polar-ESS-storage/polar-5.2kwh-battery
GivEnergy Gen 3 hybrid, 3.6kW with 5.2 battery £3280 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/giv-energy/givenergy-gen3-3600-5200-kit
The GivEnergy price was for a bundle so there is a slight saving there
Some of the comparison matrix (Polar to Giv) are now starting to get quite blurred. Particularly in regards to Support channels, IP65 versions (if they bring those across) and as it turns out, not that locked down (but probably warranty breaking) Local control.
Have to admit, had they been around 4 years ago I think I'd have gone Polar (6 months bedding in period) then warranty be dammed - local control.
If they really are Gen 3 in a dress then it's amazing what a fan can do, seems heat is the only thing holding back Gen3 as it stands. (Possibly how the new beast mode will work is it just runs hard until the heatsink is saturated then reverts to 3.6kW)
geoffreycoan Also the Polar kit isn't suitable for outdoor use as I understand it
CW IP65 version now a thing: https://www.polar-ess.com/product/ip65-hybrid-inverter/
CW Polar only do Hybrids (although you can run them as AC coupled)
I think it may be market specific i.e. not coming to UK (that IP65 one was from the China ".com" address not the UK polar one) currently only indoor version available in UK as it stands.
Like Givenergy's Chinese website (which had info on the Gen 3 batteries long before they UK announced them) it may be a sign of things to come (or it might not!) - depends if Giv just want to get product shipped as to whether they really care which side of the brand you buy, so long as it's one of them - to enable an ongoing funding source for support / portal infrastructure costs. (You can for instance "own label" the Polar gear & portal should you wish, which is another revenue stream to be monetised.)
hoggy My app has always had the option to change the network port in settings.
If anyone can test it against the polar kit, I would be interested to know how well it works.
My best estimate is that there are 158 polar installations so far (although not all may be complete and working yet), so if my app doesn't work, I have no plans to adapt it to support such a small user base.
Vestas no local access
The current polar kit has a display screen and 4 buttons. You can set a timed charge using the display. I call that local control.
The current Polar offering seems to (only) have 3 charge slots. GE kit has 1 or 10 depending on version. This would suggest some differences in register allocation.
Rubikcube Wasn't aware it had that facility so its probably fine for the target market.
CW Its the battery you should be concerned about, not the inverter. Inverter can go anywhere within reason, batteries (new building regs) are going to be difficult to install indoors in domestic premises.
Rubikcube The current Polar offering seems to (only) have 3 charge slots. GE kit has 1 or 10 depending on version. This would suggest some differences in register allocation.
It may just be that only the first 3 slots are exposed in the UI and the other 7 are hidden from the user. Would make sense from a support perspective to keep it as similar as possible
I vaguely keep an eye on Polar twitter. Looks like they are getting the AIO aswell now (although yet to be seen if it will be as yet unreleased hybrid AIO or the current one (maybe production continues, we'll see)
In other news, if true (which I never really trust these things) Polar might be done in the UK perhaps?
Looks like they get the second Gen AIO, potentially before Givenergy....
https://www.polar-ess.com/product/all-in-one-ess-2/
hoggy Starting to look a bit like the Kia-Hyundai relationship where (in theory) you can get an earlier (cheaper) version of the (more polished) final product. Not entirely sure that strategy worked for Hyundai in the UK 😉
Vestas Works very well for Dacia:- A Dacia Sandero is an earlier Renault Clio with £10,000 in the glovebox 😃
The Polar version seems to have all the "bells and whistles" that GE should have installed in their more expensive versions. This will decimate GE sales.
They now have a 15kWh battery (that may or may not trickle over to Givenergy) - seems to be how it works.
https://www.polar-ess.com/product/pol-lv-battery/
hoggy Interesting that they're actually honest regarding the depth of discharge. GE aren't as none of their current LV batteries are actually 100% DoD, they're all 92/93% - assuming the SoC isn't screwed of course.