Everything Fails (eventually)

I have seem a number of posts about, weird things happening, spurious data out of kilter with reality etc. It might be of some help to think about engineering and science. In this instance there are two useful things to remember.

1. ALL hardware will fail
2. NO software is error free

You can stop there, or read on for a bit

The environment (heat, cold, power transients, moisture, cosmic rays, time ...) will have an effect, and equipment is designed with some tolerance in its specification i.e. some devices of the same model will be better than others. Humans (that's us) are quite adept at not reading the manual and screwing things up too.

Manufacturing quality control and testing will hopefully weed out early failures. And once burn-in has been achieved (think of as the first few weeks of use) then one has reached the low probability of failure part of the 'bathtub' curve, and the product should function well for some years before wear-out begins, and starts the climb up the end-of-life side of the bathtub.

Even so, sometimes things go wrong (see 1,2 above). If one is lucky, a reset (turn it off; wait; turn it on) will have the desired effect. Resetting software or cooling a component for example. Updating the software might be the answer. Sometimes it is more serious and failure means a part needs replacing.

There is a limit to the amount of testing that can be done before a product (especially software) is released. I note the number of threads that are looking for 'the latest' software 'now' and compare them against the complaints that some things don't work as well as they did; or at all. [cf. Microsoft]

In conclusion we all want 'the best'. I wish things worked better, were released faster, did more for less, and were more efficient - but we are all human, and the world works as it does.

Is that you, Givenergy CEO? :-P

I think it's an AI robot.

The trick is knowing how long that bath tub is. If a failure occurs how much do you spend on repair before deciding replacement is better.

We had a NEFF tumble dryer, at about the 6 year point it failed. We were off on holiday and an engineer booked to arrive when we got home. It worked when he switched it on! However it continues to fail and switching power off at the mains for a short period allowed the software to reset. At the 7 year point its probability it starting was getting near zero. Rather than pau out 40% to cost of a repair compared with a new machine we bought new.

Much as it pained me to dump a perfectly good and repairable machine it was more reassuring to buy new. We also got a more modern and more economical model.

So how long before replacing battery, inverter, PV etc?

One salesman had his own through life cost spreadsheet. Excellent sales pitch. Put us off buying his system!

hoggy Sorry but No neither a CEO or an AI, just a user of a GE system who spent some of his working life building computer based systems for high availability uses

OP is obviously correct. However, scrolling the Facebook forums implies that warranty replacements are now dragging out to 6-8 weeks before GivEnergy provide replacements. At least based on what installers are saying. That's not acceptable. At least not in my opinion.

neonplanet40 might it be a supply issue rather than trying to avoid repairs?

Same with cars, you need a new gearbox at the same time they are making cars. Selling cars makes money, diverting supply to repair is an expense.

Not at the prices charged for things like gearboxes.....very definitely a profit centre.

Personally I think the turnaround times are relatively good considering it sounds an absolutely miserable place to work.

wilfleek I meant warranty diversion not a paid for. Even paid for has no priority as you are asa hostage buyer.

The_Engineer everything fails sometimes is a given, but most companies have a support group that deals with failures promptly and responds to customers and resolves issues. There’s no point in offering a 12 yr warranty if you can’t support it. Plus are you aware that some companies make more money out of maintenance than selling products.

A warranty is only worth anything if the company that give it still exists. No company=no warranty.
Unless of course it is an insurance backed warranty by a reputable 3rd party company with all premiums being paid up before said company stopped existing.

SteveCook as the kit is warranted by Givenergy for 5 years I shall keep my fingers crossed

Personally I wouldn’t trust any warranty over 5 years from personal experience.

SimonClarke Personally I wouldn’t trust any warranty over 5 years from personal experience.

Not electronics but a company offering a 200 year guarantee caught my eye recently, and surprisingly they do appear to try to show how they would deliver it
https://www.metmo.co.uk/pages/200-year-guarantee

geoffreycoan wonder who would claim on it

Dorian Gray

Wolf Garten offer 35 years so I have warned my children (48 and 50) not to throw my garden tools away.

OTOH Tefal with a 5 Yr guarantee said I was using the wrong dishwasher detergent as the bottom fell off the pans. Cheap pans from Aldi no problem

geoffreycoan Well, that was a very satisfying 50 mins exploring the MetMo site. Can't afford any of their stuff, but lovely to look at... Thanks for the link!

ChrisLav yes they have some beautiful items, at 'proper engineering' prices. Even the fidget toys are 'executive' prices

SteveCook after having to deal with a “so called” insurance back warranty provided by an installer that went bust and having had to take them to the insurance ombudsman. The ombudsman had to threaten them to get the money refunded. They are not much good, unless you are prepared to get nasty with the provider and get the ombudsman involved.
“Most of the companies running them are right dodgey outfits” according to one of the staff at the ombudsman

SimonClarke It would be interesting to see how they got parts like integrated circuits for it in 200 yrs time.