Has anyone been following this development by Axle Energy?
Looks like they have cleared a path with Elexon and Ofgem to support individual asset metering (EV charger, battery etc) behind the usual boundary meter to support demand flexibility and balancing mechanism services, i.e. supports those with meters that are not smart, or providers that don’t support half hourly settlement (HHS).
Links:
Yes but be careful what you wish for (if its device metered & not settled by the smartmeter going out, it works the other way - cheap rate just for EV charging but not your house battery is perhaps not as appealing but the logical conclusion to where this ends up)
hoggy hadn't some providers already come up with such a tariff? Was it BG? All units were formally billed at full price based on smart meter, then a rebate was given based on usage reported by the EV charger.
DD yes a few have trialed it, ovo was one, edf or e.on briefly had similar but now don’t? (Not sure if the ovo one is alive still) with the rebate.
It did require a very limited/specific EV charger that they had access to.
This modification sets the stall for a lot more devices to come onboard with a more standardised approach - although once HH metering is enforced on all, over the next 3 years, you wouldn’t need this mod. By then, aggregators and suppliers (& maybe the tax man) may have gotten a good taste of being able to differentiate where exactly the power is flowing to.
Wouldnt' surprise me if they are working towards this more - end of the day with the changes to EV taxing based on mileage, they are going to want a better/quicker/easier way to track it, makes sense if the house devices to support it to be able to split rate bills, I guess its come about because people have abused cheap tarrifs etc sot hey need to work a way back on it.
TimI I think its more a case of ultimately applying 20% VAT on EV charging as its not domestic use (5% rate).
Hard to argue against really given the marginal cost to EV owners per mile. Certainly better than a flat rate per mile for most....
Vestas Should I get charged VAT if a charge car from solar? What if I first put solar into battery, then from battery to car? Can they distinguish fill battery from grid and then putting it into car? Gets messy quite quickly.
Why isn’t domestic charging my EV domestic use FFS?
What ARE you on about? And why should I pay 20% VAT on electricity just because it went into my car..?
I’ve already paid 20% VAT (£12,000) to the government when I spent £60,000 on my car !
That’s £12,000 they already got from me, on income they previously took 40% tax and national insurance off. So more like they took £20,000+ in tax from me already for that purchase (ignoring the NI). Surely they have taken enough off us already. More than someone driving an old heavy Volvo around. No?
It just seems extra greedy to me. Just because they can and they are incompetent.
It’s not really encouraging anyone to be green is it?
We’d all be better off driving an old diesel banger around if they keep hammering us like this.
Honestly I can see why people want to leave the UK now.
Why can’t the government just run the country like a proper business, where they have to make a profit? Politicians are ok, they get an extremely generous gold plated final salary pension paid for by all of us muggins for their greed and incompetence. So they have no accountability to make a profit and don’t seem to care about borrowing more and more, burdening the country with massive debt, as they’ll be ok whatever happens.
Rant over 😂😂
Pete UK Why isn’t domestic charging my EV domestic use FFS?
What ARE you on about? And why should I pay 20% VAT on electricity just because it went into my car..?
You pay 20% VAT on the fuel you put in an ICE. If you charge an EV at a public charging station you pay 20% VAT.
The 5% VAT rate on electricity, gas and heating oil is a discounted rate for home energy consumption, and filling your car with (electric) fuel isn’t home energy consumption.
So it sounds entirely logical that it should be 20% VAT on home EV charging. Anything else you buy for a car such as tyres, bulbs, wiper blades all pay VAT and any other fuel for any other vehicle you pay full rate VAT on.
I don’t like paying taxes either, god knows I paid more than enough, and I don’t like paying VAT either, but public services cost money whether we like it or not and that all has to be paid somehow. All those furlough schemes and the electricity price cap guarantee we paid out on a few years ago have to be paid back and the books have to be balanced.
Politicians in opposition like to say that they’ll do away with waste from the system and yet that always seems to be harder to find than they make it out to be.
Anyway, we’re off topic here. Such things are outside my pay grade to influence
Meh, I see the disparity.
There was an article in the guardian about how VAT on public charging stations should be brought down to 5% to match the disparity, which makes more sense to encourage the EV change over. Public charging at 60p or even 80p a kW is outrageous.
I understand why and that things have to be paid for but all the public charging stations; The government didn’t pay for all that infrastructure did they? They are mostly all private companies already paying taxes. So why should they demand 20% VAT on that electricity instead of the usual 5%. The electricity is coming from the same place after all ?
No wonder the people that can’t charge at home don’t anticipate much cost savings switching to EV’s.
There is loads of disparity with VAT already, some items have it, some don’t. Fuel has 53p tax and extra levies on it and then another 20% VAT on top of that amount AND the tax levies. Tax on top of the tax paid.
As above, how will they know if you charged your car using solar instead of grid? What next, VAT on the solar you generate yourself? Tax on the sun? It’s a slippery slope.
Separating where your home electricity comes from and which items it goes to is going to be an unworkable nightmare. They can’t even get peoples smart meters working. They’ll probably come up with a super expensive, cumbersome and complex way to monitor it instead of trying to reduce costs.
Something got me triggered here !
Pete UK Tax on the sun?
Well there is already provision for this.. see this (sorry can't find the HMRC directive)
Key HMRC Rules for Homeowners
Tax Exemption: You are exempt from Income Tax if the solar panel system is installed at your home and is primarily for your own domestic use.
"Significantly Exceed" Rule: HMRC's guidance indicates that generating up to 120% of your annual domestic electricity needs is acceptable and unlikely to be considered as "significantly exceeding" your own consumption.
Taxable Income Threshold: If your total income from the SEG (and any other self-employed or 'side-hustle' income) exceeds the £1,000 annual trading allowance, you must declare this to HMRC via a self-assessment tax return, even if no tax is ultimately owed.
Business Activity: If generating electricity is considered a business activity (e.g., a large ground-mounted system with primary intent to export), the income is treated as taxable business income. Businesses can usually claim capital allowances on installation costs.
VAT: The installation of energy-saving materials, including solar panels and associated batteries, is currently subject to a temporary zero rate of VAT until March 31, 2027. After this date, the reduced rate of 5% is expected to applyCW I was going to highlight the same thing, you found the text much better than I could have done.
In essence getting payment for solar generation is a form of income. Fortunately there is a tax exemption for reasonable generation, but if you had a paddock or large area of land and filled it with solar panels and the DNO didn’t complain, you’d be taxed on the income they generate.
All taxes are a mess and there are loads of exemptions and rules. Whether something is a biscuit or a cake, whether it’s hot or cold food being taken away, etc. Again, brave government that will actually do something meaningful to rationalise or simplify it so as usual it gets fudged around the edges.
Good for the accountants I guess
It doesn't take much to hit that 120% limit, especially for those who are low usage households (especially where gas heating is used)
Thankfully that trading allowance is there too.
Not sure how they determine household consumption. I'm guessing it means electricity consumption. After paying the gas bill I'm unlikely to see any profit, but on electric alone, I'd hit 140%