With all the doom and gloom social media around GE at the moment and nothing official announced, is anyone considering new GE kit? Upgrades? New installs? I am personally pondering it for a new house, just wondering how many people think I am mad?
I'm still thinking of adding 5 panels SSE and 4-5 panels WSW on the house roof (The existing 14 panels are almost horizontal on the workshop roof. I was planning to use string inverters and an AIO in the garage, or possibly run the DC with the SWA catenery into the garage and use the AIO2 and 2 MPPT channels. A G99 or G100 would be needed
I'm not keen on the closed system and am appalled at the way the company is being run by the remaining owner/director. But the kit is well thought out.
GE pushed out that 'get an extra battery at a big discount' mailshot a couple of months back and had that been a fantastic offer - I'd have taken it - and still would today, but it'd have to be at a price where I could assume that in 12 months my products wouldn't be under warranty any more.
The offer was 20% off (that was then consumed by the installer's fees).
That's a summer sale price - not a 'this kit might not be supported in 12 months' price.
Stock at resellers does appear to be an issue. But I am considering the full AIO2 with both expansions, gateway and mppt. Its the 6 mppts is the big one for me. Sig offer 4 mppts and tesla 3. But figures for it, i am a little twitchy spending it.
Assume when investing that there will be no warranty and no support (the latter is already almost true).
I might consider expanding an existing system but I wouldn't choose a brand new one.
Wholesalers seem very low on stock and it seems difficult to find installers who still work with GE.
It’s one of the options I’m considering as GE are one of the few I’ve found with an open API. Tesla are pretty closed up in the PW3, however good the product and I’m not sure I really want AI controlling things for me. Not sure on Sigenergy, despite a lot of people raving about them.. they’ve had a few major issues plus again the AI point.
GE is very much the devil one knows. If I did upgrade, would consider an AIO2 and an expansion pack. I’d keep AC coupled so it would play nice with my existing myenergi kit and minimize changes. I’d just have to change around a few automations. But would in theory give me double my output into the house (useful as installing heat pump) and a gateway in case of powercut, rather than a limited manual switch.
Do you know if the AIO2 can be simultaneously AC and DC coupled? , I.e if you could have some panels connected directly and others via their own inverters?
I think I'd pick up an AIO if suppliers do end up clearing stock. I have the gateway anyway and it'd be nice to prove I could commission a fresh out the box one without the installer portal.
I started researching and speccing replacement gear a month or so back and narrowed down to Sigenergy or Alpha ESS. Both would work but both have some issues I don't like. Alpha probably shades it given they have a solid track record, solid kit and no unnecessary schizzle. They also have a gateway due in June. I also researched Powerwall but the control is pretty pants to be honest - lots of frustrated Powerwall users reporting "weirdness".
However I'm now making good progress with Home Assistant and also the RubikCube app, both of which are configured and accessible remotely. The HA Green box only arrived at lunchtime yesterday and even with a modicum of IT knowledge, you can get up-and-running sharpish. I need to tidy it up and build a decent dashboard but it's serviceable already. So my panic has lessened somewhat and my rip-out plans are shelved for now. I won't expand the existing kit though, too much risk at the moment.
I also had chance to speak to a couple of installers who still rate the Giv kit. They say it's a bit "old hat" now although the AIO2 is supposed to be excellent. One of the installers knew about the issues at GE but the other didn't and was still happily installing it.
My takeaway was that a) the kit is decent b) run with it until it becomes unsustainable c) there isn't anything perfect out there as an alternative anyway. It's all a bit dynamic and no doubt we'll find out more about Giv soon enough. Similarly, stuff is changing fast with alternative suppliers and I'll keep that under review in case I want to switch sharpish at any point. Our solar array is still very capable and switching batteries etc out is much easier/faster than if you were starting the whole thing again.
So as of this week my house move is happening. Already started looking at new batteries and solar and hitting 2 issues. 1 I have not found an installer willing to touch giv kit anymore. They are worried giv are going to fold and they will have to pick up some of the warranty issues. Apparently something similar happened with Duracell systems? And 2 stock, most suppliers are not getting giv kit in. No idea if it is due to lack of supply or suppliers are refusing to get it in.
However, checking the job search Giv are still advertising for new staff, tech support, tech support manager, account managers for UK and Germany. The ads are live now. I am still hoping they are simply restructuring. I am after the 6 mppt's on the AIO2 for my new roof space!
THALL Are the AIO2's working properly? I know there were AIO teething issues with capacity, but not sure how well they're working now.
AIO, Gateway and 10 panels here.
Installed 18 months by OVO and encouraged to sign up to their truly terrible Battery Boost tariff (now thankfully discontinued)
Jumped to IOG variable and 7p overnight tariff if you have an EV.
AIO had performed flawlessly after fixing OVO- inspired connectivity problems. Now hardwired and wake up to a 100% battery every morning.
Nothing but praise for Giv and it's kit. It's CS (which was excellent 18 months ago) by all accounts is terrible but thankfully I've never had to use it.
Anticipating a glut of second user AIOs hitting the market when/if Giv changes hands. I'll be waiting!
Hook As far as I know yes they are. I am talking to one installer to convince him to install 1 more giv system :-)
Are AIO2's cheaper than PW3's?
Hook Yes, much. £4200ex vat vs £6000 for pw3. But the PW3 UK has some parts disabled only 3 mppts, the AIO2 offers more
Midsummer don't have any AIO2's in stock 🙁
ITS Technologies used to stock GE kit, all sold off and no longer stocking it.
Removed from their web site this week.
They are a pretty big stockist of battery and solar kit..
We had an AIO2 and associated gateway installed in Feb. So far it's worked well, though it did seem to do one self-reboot, a couple of weeks back. Nothing since though, and no errors on the app or portal.
The order was placed well before Christmas, but DNO issues delayed it all. The order for it would have gone in late Jan/early Feb though.
I only found out about the GE issues when I got an account and logged on here. Up to then I'd only seen technical reviews.
At least one of the installers said he has the same kit, so I'm hoping they have an incentive to support it, if there's any problems.
THALL With all the doom and gloom social media around GE at the moment and nothing official announced, is anyone considering new GE kit? Upgrades?
I'm currently looking at Eleven (Sodium Iron batteries) & Sigenergy options to replace my 3.6kW Gen 2 Hybrid & 2 x 9.5kWh batteries. Apart from general frustrations with GE as a company & them not offering any backwards compatible kit to upgrade what I've got, my 3.6kW inverter is just not big enough for my current / future needs.
One installer I approached offered me a GE All In One system & listed a bunch of reasons why GE is OK, stable & that he could deal with any technical issues!! I'm not buying that & definitely will not be inflicting any further pain on myself by going down the GE route again for a replacement system.
Assuming I can get G99 or G100 approval, I am leaning towards a 10kW 1ph Eleven Inverter with a minimum 27kWh of storage. The downside is I would need to make more space in my garage as the Sodium Iron batteries are less dense, larger & I would need two stacks of 3/4 4.5kW battery packs to achieve or exceed my required storage. Eleven don't have a gateway yet either but they have advised it is coming soon.
I'm also waiting for a 2nd Sigenergy (Sigenstore) quote. The 1st quote I got was stratospherically expensive. The Sig system is definitely a more compact solution + they have a gateway available & integrated car charger - not needed as I have a Zappi already. Installers seem to love Sigenergy systems as well stating that they are a doddle to install & commission.
Still not made up mind which way to go.
It's a lot of money to shell out after only 3 years with my existing GE system which, fingers crossed & touch wood, has actually been working OK of late after I hardwired the Inverter to my router to solve WiFi issues. I've not done the ROI numbers but even though I've slashed my electricity bill, built up a buffer in my Octopus account with export which has easily covered my gas usage through the winter I'm guessing my existing system still owes me some money. For me though it's more about getting piece of mind. I know a lot more now than I did first time around so I will not be making the same mistakes again.
I guess you have to make up your own mind what you want to do & which manufacturer to go with. GE haven't handled their issues well at all & my experience with them has not been the best so I will not be going back to them for any new kit.
Would have thought going with sodium iron was a risk as relatively new compared with lithium?
M_J Yeah, thats bad news. However it is not the first time giv stock has vanished. Given current world events it could be stuck on a boat somewhere. But to remove the listing entirely is pretty bad news. Regardless I have tried 9 installers now and none of them will touch giv kit so regardless of what i would like it doesn't matter.
Also on a side note I have had a support ticket in with Giv for a week and a half, total silence.
SimonClarke Sodium Iron is a safer & a more environmentally friendly tech &, for residential use, it's larger / heavier disadvantage is somewhat negated. Sodium batteries also performs better at lower temps & can be fully discharged / charged with no major detrimental effects so from a tech perspective it makes a lot more sense for use in home batteries.
As for Eleven as a company, they are relatively new which is somewhat risky for any newish start up. However, all the big battery players are developing Sodium & solid state solutions as alternatives to more traditional battery chemistry. That said any new company that can't support it's products is doomed to fail.
Believe me I saw many big well known companies come & go in my old industry who failed to understand the importance of training & supporting the companies that installed their installers. Once you loose the trust of installers (who are effectively your end user sales force) you are in trouble. Eleven are too new as a company to have this problem but fast growth in any company brings all sorts of problems so it's a bit of a waiting game to see how Eleven get on at they gather momentum.
Have a look at this vid by Matt Ferrell about Sodium Iron batteries. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrTCgZmUFCY]
For me Sodium's safer chemistry, it's worldwide abundance vs Lithium, better low temp performance &, that Eleven are a UK company tick most of my boxes. I've still not decided which way to go & I've still got a few nagging doubts about manufacturers with closed Inverter control systems / Apps.
CGoode my point was that sodium is relatively new especially for home use so personally I’d be waiting a couple of years to see how many explode, smell funny or only operate on Thursday. It may well end up as the go to for home use but so might other alternatives
I would cheerfully get another 9.5 to feed the ashp but my installer no longer deal with GE…..and don’t want to do second hand. If they go bust I might have a go myself as I won’t be infringing any warranty….
CGoode Matt Ferrel is an enthusiast but often lets his enthusiasm run away with him without checking the claims of various manufacturers and presents them as facts.
Tenkaykev I agree. However, it was the subject of Sodium batteries in general I was trying to example as a valid technology. Whether Sodium (or Eleven as a company) succeeds commercially only time will tell. For me it's an option when I decide to replace my existing GE kit. However, like Matt Ferrell - I'm still "undecided".
CGoode
I wasn't questioning Sodium batteries, they seem ideal, especially for home installations and I believe that they have a great future with so many positives, ( sorry )
Especially with the raw materials being so abundant. I have seen other, more measured discussions of the technology, and while I once subscribed to Matt Ferrels YouTube channel I am no longer a subscriber.
CGoode Sodium's safer chemistry
Sodium is below Lithium in group 1 of the periodic table, hence it ionises more readily and is more reactive.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zy7dgdm/revision/1
Rubikcube
Yaay...more Group 1 Chemistry...go K go!
There's got to be a market niche for caesium sulfur batteries. 😃
mrand31 Don't ya luv Gp1 chemistry..Ru ready?? Chem joke
If they are building Sodium batteries because of the abundance of the element, maybe it's also time to revisit Chlorine batteries as a side product/hussle :-)