I've been reading with interest people's thoughts on where GE are heading. Clearly the customer service is pretty appalling but, Octopus (as an example), will have fitted a lot of GE kit. If GE kit is as good as most of us think it is and companies like Octopus have installed it, I seems hard to believe that it would just vanish without trace at the click of a finger. Someone will step in at some point surely.
Could some of the talk be a little scaremongerish?
Also the recent integration into Hive BGs (Centrica) Home management system. Presented similarly to the Powercard display in Home Assistant.
Only in Beta but works well.
Lots of people bought Rovers & Saabs but they still went bust despite the dealer network...
I know that's a rather broad analogy but you get my point - nothing is a given.
Ultimately if you lose the faith of your installer network then your equipment stops being fitted.
If your ongoing support and portal requires ongoing funding, where does it come from if your installer network is hesitant to fit it?
I don't doubt some of it is sensationalised for dramatic effect but there's just a bit too much "not right" coming out at the moment for there not to be something going on.
Be careful what you wish for with someone else taking things on - nobody is going to fund the portals ongoing costs out of generosity forever without wanting something in return.
The thing that confuses me is why hasn't GE spoken up?
Presumably GE won't tell us that, either. It's got to the stage where it almost doesn't matter if they say "don't worry folks, we're all good", many won't believe it.
Perhaps instead, they are knuckling down and fixing stuff. The best way to give a two finger salute to the naysayers is by improving to a state that installers and we fall back in love with them.
Fingers crossed.
The problem is it is becoming very hard to find stock of their equipment at wholesalers and those people who have been trying to expand or upgrade their kit have not been able to find installers willing to do so.
The best case I can think of is they exclusively do commercial equipment and stop selling any new residential. Most consumers will be unaware of the problems but that's irrelevant if installers are refusing to handle it and most consumer purchases will be based on installer recommendation anyway.
To get keep the consumer business going GivEnergy will have to be able to convince a big player like E.ON or Octopus Energy, or do Direct To Consumer. The installer network bridges are burned.
hoggy Lots of people bought Rovers & Saabs but they still went bust despite the dealer network...
It's not quite the same.... Saabs were sold by Saab and Rovers by Rover. GE was sold, in quite large numbers I would imagine, by Octopus. Octopus may not technically be on the hook, but they will have an obligation to look after customers that bought their recommended product. I don't see GE just disappearing. We might not retain our guarantees etc but usability will be maintained one way or another so the portal, or a portal, will be made available. Octopus will not have customers that bought GE products unable to control them.
Nobody bought a Saab or Rover directly from them, rather thru’ dealers, @hoggy ‘s argument stands, IMHO.
I did not buy my GE via Octopus and I suspect a fair proportion of others did not either.
Does anyone know if Givenergy products are still being manufactured in China? If not, when did they stop?
3 months to ship here. Wholesellers don't seem to have stock.
I think their priority was selling Chinese batteries which they are now shifting in EV's.
What is Givenergy's revenue stream now ? Not us !
Newman What is Givenergy's revenue stream now ? Not us !
Definitely not, us existing customers are a cost base, not revenue. Unless they monetise the app, turn it into a subscription service, etc as some other manufacturers have done.
Fortunately there are workarounds/alternative ways of maintaining local control as already covered on this forum
So I did not want to believe all the social doom and gloom however some recently I have found some issues, not just online reading but problems I have found
1 I have been contacting local installers listed as giv installers and none of them are willing to install any giv kit.
2 stock is not being replaced. 1 major supplier is no longer listing giverngy kit
3 warranty issued raised, zero repsonse.
I want a AIO2 for my new home. But can't justify the risk, expensive outlay for something which may become a brick if giv fold and no one buys them. I am hoping they fix it, i am hoping they actually make an announcement. the kit is good, software tad flakey, support none existant. However I can see if they are hiring support staff and a couple of sales managers. BUT if installers refuse to touch their kit the consumer branch will die, commercial, no idea maybe the commercial arm is going strong?
BASICALLY GIVENERGY PLEASE SORT IT OUT AND SAY SOMETHING - TALK TO US - I for one want more of your kit
I'm waiting on a warranty Inverter replacement (10 weeks). Managed to get a call through last week. Lady says warehouse has stock but they are banned from issueung RMAs currently.....
Andrew
Drives 3 SAABs...
wrighar so deliberately not replacing faulty equipment? Plus no supplies at wholesalers. It doesn't bode well but maybe it's because they're in the middle of takeover talks or similar. That would also explain why there's nothing being announced. Frustrating.
wrighar That is extremely concerning. That suggests they are concerned about not being paid for the replacement.
A quick look at the Companies House site shows that all directors have resigned over several months and not been replaced.
Just the one director now, gives his address as that of the company but telephone number has a Derbyshire area code.
As someone who is pretty satisfied with the kit, and who trusted Octopus to make wise choices when submitting the spec, I am dismayed at the prospect of GE going under. Plus, they are local to me so I want to see it succeed.
I assume that first port of call short they they go under is the installer, being the retailer who provided the goods?
Any body tried banging on their front door?
KevinH Installer yes, but the big BIG issue is our system are cloud managed. If giv's servers turn off unless you are running home assistant we're all a bit stuffed. Basically an expensive brick without some form of local control. I am trying to find out if the Chinese sister company will servers if the UK side fails.
General email from GE - there's more to it, I'll post the other stuff into the Portal section, as it's more relevant there.
Note, there's no From name on it, that I can see.
A personal note from me
I’ve recently taken responsibility for GivEnergy Software, with a very clear goal: to make the platform sustainable and de-risk its future.
I know that the GivEnergy experience - in software quality and hardware support - hasn't always been where it should be. That's on us. I am confident that we can make this work if we get this transition right and fund the product fairly and effectively. That’s why your input matters.
I’ve put together a short survey to understand how you use the software and what matters most to you. It should take only a minute or two – there are 12 questions, most are multiple choice and all are optional. There’s also space for any other thoughts you may have that aren’t covered by the questions.
Your responses will directly influence how we implement this change. We’ll feed back with your aggregated, anonymised responses in a future blog post, for maximum transparency.
adskankster
Not very "personal" then
So I think there maybe a few more questions that may affect the warranty and HA etc working.
Was there not a statement about if your not connected to the cloud for a % of time the warranty could be void and revert to 12 months.
I thought a warranty was valid if a company went bankrupt? E.g insurance they took out etc?
The list will get longer I think
P.S.
The system must remain connected to the internet and GivEnergy servers for monitoring and diagnostic purposes, and failure to maintain connectivity may affect or invalidate warranty claims.
My system was installed in Aug 2023.
In 2023 documentation, there was no clear, upfront disclosure of a future subscription model
• That possibly gives me a reasonable basis to challenge the change, especially if:
• cloud features were part of the purchase decision
• The case becomes stronger if I have:
• installer quotes
• screenshots / brochures from the time
However after seeing this info, it maybe you only have to pay after the Warranty period?
GivEnergy Software Pricing
As per GivEnergy Software EULA all apps are Standard Tier unless otherwise
stated in the Terms & Conditions of App signup.
Standard Tier Apps:
• Free of charge for duration of product warranty (any in-warranty
Inverter or EV Charger)
• £2 PCM thereafter, payable on subscription basis
Premium Tier Apps:
• Free of charge for duration of trial period
• £4 PCM from end of trial period until cancelled
Daveb01 I thought a warranty was valid if a company went bankrupt? E.g insurance they took out etc?
Some warranties are insurance-backed (e.g. double glazing), but there's no indication that the GE one is.
I'm using HA/GivTCP so largely unaffected by loss of the portal - but have been contemplating adding a second string of panels to the inverter. No idea how an installer needs to commission that, if necessary.
If the inverter dies, can the GE batteries be used with other inverters?
Daveb01 Was there not a statement about if your not connected to the cloud for a % of time the warranty could be void and revert to 12 months.
The withdrawal the cloud services from anyone choosing not to subscribe doesn't necessarily mean that the inverter stops connecting to the cloud; just that you can't use the portal to see your data, or use the API to control your inverter.
GE can still inspect your system remotely, for example, if they need to troubleshoot your system. Installers may still have remote access.
Daveb01 Has anyone done a test and cut the internet connection to the GE kit and see if HA etc still works.
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/6709-the-nuclear-option-what-if-ge-wasnt-there
DD I have seen a few posts when people see there inverter offline. So if can not login to the cloud how will you know your system is offline? There router says it has an IP etc?
I think the big thing here is that GE need to urgently release full local control of the systems to people to allow management after they go under. Such as adding or removing inverters and batteries from the system. If an inverter goes pop, someone's installer has got to be able to source a replacement even used and add it in to the system.
Daveb01 Thanks. I guess there's no chance that the Principal Software Engineer is the Dragon?
Interesting that they managed to publish a total of 4 testimonials, including one installer that added this comment: "My only feedback would be around technical support wait times. When we’re on-site, it would really help to get through to an agent a bit quicker."
wrefordj He is (or was) head of testing, so no is the answer.
No, it's an ex employee who broke cover on one of the other forums earlier this week (Renewablehub maybe?)
wrighar Link?
ectoplasmosis Been looking for it but can't find it now, they posted 3 times defending their email.
Their username was Powerdog
Found it, SpeakEv forum:
Powerdog, name of Steven
hmm, reading the following updates, it's them not being the spin off....
wrighar Sounds even more dodgy now.
Edit - there's at least one person saying they got the spam mail from Powerdog AFTER Steven Griffin (ex GE CEO) resigned from GE. I think they've got him bang to rights, so I'd encourage everyone who got the email to report it to the ICO (there is a case already open) and hopefully he gets hit with a large fine.
A similar forum on this topic is live at https://renewableheatinghub.co.uk/forums/energy-storage/anyone-concerned-about-givenergy/ where it has been noted that there is some evidence of 'critical' users being bumped off other social media sites.
So should GE close this forum or even the community, it is good to know that we have another home available, if only to talk.
Anyone else noticed (sorry if I'm repeating this) on Linkedin the the Technical Support Manager and a Senior technical support technician are both looking to move on .......
I've been trying to get through on the phone all morning. No response. Is there a problem already?
BarleyRiser No, its been like that for nearly 2 years.
BarleyRiser Not even the AI bot on the consumer line? Or were you pretending to be an installer?
Hook They've been saying that even more publically on Trustpilot for nearly two years now....
This has popped up on Facebook this morning:
https://caseboard.io/cases/3bce5889-8fa9-4961-804f-a9a407993ef3
Josephiah Ohhh
wrighar quite. Remains to be seen how it will play out. There are actually several companies there, so this may be the UK hardware branch being closed (perhaps to be bought for a song or arise as a new stripped-down phoenix company, in either case minus the warranty liabilities...), with the software side continuing under their ineptly-announced freemium model. All speculation on my part, however...
Josephiah I've just followed the caseboard.io feed for this case number so will get updates when they occur.
Hopefully it will get wrapped and bought.
My replacement inverter goin in Monday, so I need the installer portal working on the 13th.
As this is a notice of intent I'm hoping thing remain for a while.
wrighar It'll take a while as this is just a notice of intent. You should be OK for the rest of the month.
I've just followed the caseboard.io feed for this case number so will get updates when they occur.
Hopefully it will get wrapped and bought.
My replacement inverter goin in Monday, so I need the installer portal working on the 13th.
As this is a notice of intent I'm hoping thing remain for a while.
I have no Section75 on my install as my installer doesn't take credit cards. so I'm soon to be warranty less I guess.
I'd still like a 2nd battery though.
I am moving house soon, just wondering if my buyers solicitor will notice this. I had to provide full details of the battery system a couple of weeks ago.
I notice 'Rachel' has gone, click 2 for customer support and it/they immediately hangs up.
THALL You'd better tell them. The buyers can (and probably will) come after you when it fails. Technically you are committing a criminal offence (fraud) if you conceal the information prior to exchanging contracts.
Vestas I have not provided warranty information, nor has the question of warranty been asked. So far information requested was make, model, capacity, date of install. However after reading the transfer of warranty document I expect I will have no choice but to have the entire system disconnected and moved to my new address. See below. However I have checked with my installer who thankfully still exists and they say owner is set on the engineer dashboard and they can change owner information. Just a name and email required.
Quote
GivEnergy warranties are transferable to new homeowners, provided the equipment remains at the original installation address and the system maintains constant internet connectivity. To transfer, you must submit a written request to support@givenergy.co.uk along with proof of ownership, such as a completion statement or solicitor’s letter.
THALL If they haven't asked about warranty then you're in the clear so far. I'd expect that to come up when you supply all the certs/etc though.
None of the rest of it means anything now - transferring/moving warranties as there won't be any to transfer.
Provided nobody asks you a direct question about warranty and GE don't mail you regarding insolvency/administration then you're OK. Otherwise the fact they went bust while the sale was in progress is almost certainly going to end up with you being pursued for money after the sale. Even if the sum is trivial, the solicitors bills won't be 🙁
THALL the system maintains constant internet connectivity
That doesn't seem so easy to arrange. Unless perhaps a neighbour agrees to host a WiFi connection during transition.
DD Its not an enforceable term. Were the inverter off-line for a month then maybe but even then its tenuous.
Its likely to be interpreted in law as don't disconnect your inverter deliberately for a long time.
Anything else won't fly as it places conditions on the end-user which they are incapable of complying with - broadband outage, electric out etc. As such it'd be considered an unfair contract term in consumer law, and hence unenforceable.
Vestas To be honest I am treating the batteries the same as any other inbuilt appliance, oven, fridge etc. Some of our house viewers automatically assumed the batteries were included, but i explained my system is AC coupled so so not required for the solar to function :-)
THALL I'd do much the same myself although having moved 6 years ago I know all the certs get queried as to "is there still warranty cover on this"...
Its just the absolute worst scenario for you - taking or leaving out of warranty batteries in the middle of a sale while religious lunatics set the world on fire, pushing up interest rates.
Its like the antithesis of sustainable energy really 🙁
You have my sympathies.
Speak to the Geek has just done a video on this topic
CW and already it's not quite right, the Givenergy App currently does need to phone home to run locally in the native app.
Hi all,
I have the GE app, HA and Predbat. And was thinking about what we can and possibly can not do in the future. I would suggest going into the GE cloud, screen shot a few things, then compare what you can or can not do if the cloud disappeared in the near future.
I have a GW and AIO system & GE EVC so this maybe different to say a Gen3 Inverter and batteries.
This is what I have screen shot and am not comparing it to what I can see in HA & Predbat.
From one of the FB groups today - first time I've seen anything which alludes to what's actually happening. I think this is/was an employee and understandably pi$$ed off along with other colleagues on there. It looks like separate parts of the company, one in trouble and one seeking a lifeline to keep going. Not sure how a separate software entity would keep going longer term without a hardware pipeline but maybe there's more we don't know yet. There's also a chance I've misinterpreted this, it's all very dynamic at the moment.
"GivEnergy LTD is a different entity than GivSoftware.
GivSoftware run the web portal, the app, and all things software which is why you received an email telling you that at some point you will have to pay for access to the portal, or API use and that nothing had been decided yet and there was a response page on the email that some people used. yes everyone had the option to respond but felt so aggrieved about not getting something that they didn't reply.
You will still have access via the APP, which will get changes, you can still use GivTCP, you can if you are smart enough roll your own. and those who use a 4g dongle will get portal access, and don't ask for anymore information as we probably won't have a job all ready feel pissed off and then I will swear at you"
sponev Well their email highlighted that their hardware sales had weakened and that was having an impact on their business model. And were looking at cloud subscription as a means of sustaining what is effectively a post sales part of the business, But at the moment they are not showing publicly as being in administration etc
They have however filed notice of intent to appoint one so I would expect that to change by the end of the month.
Midsummer wholesale have yanked all remaining stock from sale in response.
https://caseboard.io/cases/3bce5889-8fa9-4961-804f-a9a407993ef3
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/Givenergy-entry-into-administration
pwdst It only goes in the Gazette when the administrators put it there 🙂
Which is why I wouldn't expect it until they are appointed
pwdst Apologies, meant to reply to Maxwell
at this stage, Octopus should buy out GivEnergy, they were the ones that recommended it and also they already have heat pump, adding inverter and battery would only complement their portfolio.
Also the GE hardware is actually pretty good !!
https://youtu.be/tJMuGf3vvjg?si=LbQy5zxYktw4nY9h Reports on Reddit too of all staff being made redundant.
@TheDragon (GivEnergy) has been an absolute legend from being recruited into Giv to the support he provided us all. Really feel for him!
Hook Gave up on that video when he started whinging about people paying for predbat. He's either clueless or stirring the pot....
Vestas I think he was possibly talking about Predbat.com, not the one we are using in HA.
Daveb01 I understand that. He clearly didn't.
He NEVER gets to the point, 95% drivel/ads and about 5% actual info. Life's too short for that.....
Vestas Couldn’t agree more. I managed about 4 minutes and gave up. Just pointless waffle.
I guess everyone has read the GE email? GE Ltd is in administration. Software is hopefully going to survive but asking for £4.99 for the premium subscription.
Key points from the email:
⸻
1) Company status
• GivEnergy Ltd (hardware side) → now in administration
• GivEnergy Software Ltd (app/cloud) → still running, separate company
⸻
2) Warranty & support
• Software company does NOT handle warranties or hardware
• All warranty/support now depends on:
• administrators of GivEnergy Ltd
• 👉 Warranty is uncertain / at risk
⸻
3) Subscription introduced
• Launching May
• Cost: £4.99/month
• Needed to keep cloud services running
⸻
4) Free vs paid
Free (Standard Tier):
• Local control (at home)
• Basic monitoring
• Manual scheduling
Paid (Premium):
• Remote access
• Historical data & graphs
• Smart tariff automation
• API / third-party cloud integrations
⸻
5) Your system if you don’t pay
• Will still work locally
• But loses most remote / smart features
⸻
6) Future risks
• Firmware updates → uncertain
• Cloud service → depends on subscriptions
• Software company itself → has a “Plan B” if it fails
⸻
Bottom line
• Hardware company is in administration
• Warranty is no longer secure
• Cloud features are becoming subscription-based
• System will still work, but basic only without paying