GE Software has indicated that they will try to save us about £5 if we allow them to manage the battery "smartly". This then presumably covers the current £4.99 cost of subscription.
Has anyone managed to successfully onboard their Smart Scheduler? I'm struggling to get hold of my API Key. Octopus seems to provide me a few characters of my API but no the complete 40-character key....
Any advice much appreciated!
I signed up for this yesterday and got premium access...... First thing i noticed they limited my battery from charging over night. I normally have it set to charge up fully over night in the cheap off peak EV window, but they changed it.......
Tabulous Did this happen after you enabled Smart Scheduler [Premium Tier functionality] and then completed the onboarding afterwards?
If you're not yet using Smart Scheduler you should be able to set Charging and Discharging times in your Battery settings panel?
o1975 I've not tried it myself, but Axle provide a full battery management service, and they will pay the required GE subscription on your behalf. They will export from battery at times that suit them, but will pay you for the power.
(I've not tried to use GE's smart tariff support either.)
DD I'm dipping my toes in by first testing out GE's Smart Scheduler.
I'd like to understand how GE will achieve £5 per month energy savings by smartly managing the charging and discharging of the battery.
I'd be very, very impressed if GE could dynamically adjust charging or discharging as weather and forecasts change!
o1975
If you don't want to go down the HA and free predbat route, you could try the web based predbat, but you still might need the premium GivEnergy. I am not sure.
https://predbat.com/
SteveCook Thanks Steve! I'd love to use free predbat but at present, it's just too intimidating and I don't have the necessary expertise. Perhaps someday should an expert be kind enough to write up a simple How-To Guide....
Paid Prebat is even more expensive than paid GE software 😮
o1975
True, but it works
I just followed YouTube videos, acquired an unwanted Pi from son and was up and running in a couple of hours.
I am 65 and not in IT
o1975 I'd like to understand how GE will achieve £5 per month energy savings by smartly managing the charging and discharging of the battery.
Which tariff are you on ?
There's quite a lot of scope if you're on Agile, for example. Rather less so if you are on SVT, or a straightforward tariff like Octopus Go / IOG.
o1975 Perhaps someday should an expert be kind enough to write up a simple How-To Guide....
Predbat installation summary https://springfall2008.github.io/batpred/installation-summary/
Full installation instructions https://springfall2008.github.io/batpred/install/
It might look daunting but Predbat has comprehensive documentation and it’s easy to follow. Lots of people with differing ranges of skills are using Predbat with no issues.
The GivEnergy smart tariff is supposed to do similar
DD I'm on Intelligent Octo Go which doesn't have unit prices that very dynamically.
It's a flat, higher rate between 0531h and 2329h then a flat, lower rate between 2330 and 0530h.
Do you know if Smart Scheduler takes into account the amount of forecasted PV/ solar panel generation (weather/ light forecasts) ? For example, if there was to be lots of PV generation the next day and if Smart Scheduler could then NOT charge my battery at night but only do so during that PV-rich day that could potentially save me about 80p each time...
o1975 Do you know if Smart Scheduler takes into account the amount of forecasted PV/ solar panel generation (weather/ light forecasts)
The scheduler over at Wonder Watt Does and if you are on Octopus IOG it will automatically pauses your battery so you don't dump your house battery into the EV. If you plug your EV in for a charge in the day, and Octopus allocates a bonus slot then Wonder Watt automatically schedules your house batteries to charge to take advantage of the cheap rate. WW is a subscription service but you can very quickly get your money back. I have been using it about a year and never misses a beat, super support and constant new features. Well worth the money.
duplada My installer wired my battery such that it is not connected to my EV charger. Thus, for better or worse my EV charger can never draw energy from my battery.
It's the charging of my battery using only solar on very light days and not the night before that I was wondering if Smart Scheduler might do? It would have to be clever enough to use weather forecasts to anticipate NOT topping up my battery the night before a very light day, if that makes sense?
Here is the Wonder watt link https://www.wonderwatt.com/ It schedules a solar forecast for every users location, you can choose to use it or not. I don't use it as I just charge to 100% every day on my ridiculously cheap IOG tariff, then I export all my solar generation one average I export 50kWh per day which over the year easily pays for the Gas bill also.
duplada Wow, it does look impressive! Do you have to have a paid GE Premium sub in order for Wonder Watt to work?
o1975 Yes, you do, but you can always subscribe to Axle. WW is in the process of seeing if they can integrate with the Axle API to automatically schedule events in a users local. This would be great as 1 thing you can be sure of with WW is that it sets everything back correctly after every schedule.
duplada It looks like it's £54 for WW then another £60 for GE Premium.
I'm trying to work out the maths. I only have a 4.5 kW PV-system and a 13.5 kWh GE AIO. Is your PV setup and battery storage much larger thus enabling you to export average of 50kWh per day?
My export hasn't been great thus far, I'm averaging maybe 7kWh per day?!? There are months where my PVs are barely working.
duplada Yes, you do, but you can always subscribe to Axle.
Not if he's on IOG. Octopus T&Cs are very clear about this.
Well Octopus T&C's might not allow it but Axle actually don't mind as the tariff is in their approved list. Their are no end of users on here with IOG signed up to Axle including me. If Octopus tell me I am in breach I will do something about it but until then..........
o1975 I'm trying to work out the maths. I only have a 4.5 kW PV-system and a 13.5 kWh GE AIO. Is your PV setup and battery storage much larger thus enabling you to export average of 50kWh per day?
I have a Dual AIO system but only have a 4kWh array, None of my PV generation goes to the battery I export it all @ 12p makes no sense to put it in the battery when I can charge it at 3p.kWh
duplada You're aware Octopus will back-bill you for ALL power usage at SVR. That back-billing will go back to the start of your IOG term, not necessarily just one year (Ofgem back-billing rules don't apply).
Octopus are looking at this now, according to posts on another forum. Whether that's true or not I have no idea....
o1975 I'm on Intelligent Octo Go which doesn't have unit prices that very dynamically.
It's a flat, higher rate between 0531h and 2329h then a flat, lower rate between 2330 and 0530h.
And bonus charging slots, unless You're fighting the intent of the tariff.
then NOT charge my battery at night but only do so during that PV-rich day that could potentially save me about 80p each time...
How do you compute that saving? Unless you're on FIT, with deemed export, then not charging overnight is costing around 5p/kWh by my reckoning.
Vestas We will see they have got enough on their plate still trying to sort out those that were gaming IOG with their bonus slots and using granny chargers. They still haven't fully sorted this out, because it is very difficult to do, without pissing off all the users who used the system sensibly.
duplada They don't much care about "pissing off users" who break their T&Cs 🙂
Octopus WILL back-bill for tariff T&C violations, regardless of whose "fault" it is. Ask @geoffreycoan who got back-billed for a tariff problem which wasn't his doing.
If you're happy to take the chance then best of luck to you. Others might not be so comfortable with a potential bill in the thousands...
Vestas For your information I have just telephoned Octopus support and this is what they said, whilst the T&C's say that you can only belong to one Demand Service this is really aimed at IOF where Octopus controls your inverter / battery. Since IOG does not control your battery we have NO OBJECTION to IOG users who are also subscribed to Outgoing Octopus to Also Subscribe to Axle VPP.
duplada Then tell them to change the T&Cs to say that. Until then I'll go with those rather than some random customer service droid.
Vestas I am not going to tell Octopus how to run their business I have just asked the question and have been given the answer which I recorded on my phone which is good enough for me thank you.
duplada Your IOG's lower rate of 3p per kWh is much better than mine at 6.9 p per kWh! 😮
o1975 Well it was 7p then in April they reduced it with the Government discount.
Does anyone know if the GE app smart scheduler works with Axle events?
ChrisJW My reading of GE's and Axle's FAQs is that Axle will "override" GE when an event occurs, and settings may be lost. However, I presume as Smart Scheduler manages itself it should eventually optimise your system all on its own?
duplada For your information I have just telephoned Octopus support and this is what they said, whilst the T&C's say that you can only belong to one Demand Service this is really aimed at IOF where Octopus controls your inverter / battery. Since IOG does not control your battery we have NO OBJECTION to IOG users who are also subscribed to Outgoing Octopus to Also Subscribe to Axle VPP.
Thanks for that, that’s great. I’d always assumed that because Octopus Outgoing wasn’t a “Smart tariff” It should be ok to sign up to Axle. But held back because IOG (import) is a smart tariff and because of what was being said here about the T&C’s (and now back billing 😬). To be honest I haven’t read the Octopus T&C’s recently and didn’t realise as @Vestas said that they specifically mention “IOG” as “not allowed”. I thought it said “smart tariffs” last time I read it but as I say I haven’t read the T&C’s lately. And it seems they could be a bit misleading.
Thinking about it, it does make sense that if you’re on IOF Octopus wouldn’t want Axle trying to discharge your batteries when they may be trying to charge them. Not so much for IOG, where Octoous don’t control your battery import or export. And you can export whenever you want anyway.
Think I might sign up to Axle now (not for the premium access though).
Pete UK I think as well, elsewhere in the FAQs it goes a little deeper into the reasoning, and I think although the wording is what it is, they are more concerned about another entity controlling the EV charger (for instance with zappi, there is an option to sign up to something whereby they control your charging session in order to help the grid and you both get paid for it I presume) obv this would then mean 2 entities trying to control/charge the car.
From their FAQ...
Why can't I have both Intelligent Octopus Go and a third party controlling my charging?
Tariffs
We noticed that some customers' EV charging doesn’t always fully follow our Intelligent Octopus smart charging instructions. This can happen if another app is accessing their EV or charger to set instructions too. Luckily, it’s easy to fix.
1. Who else could be accessing my charging?
You may have signed up for rewards or smart features in your charger’s software or in your car manufacturer’s app, and possibly not even realised. A dead giveaway is if you’re receiving a monthly credit from another provider in exchange for letting them manage your charging. These rewards are actually part of smart charging programmes that can cause clashes with Intelligent Octopus smart charging.
To fix it, you’ll just need to opt out of any third-party apps’ rewards or ‘smart’ programmes, and we’ll be able to keep your charging on track and avoid any clashes.
2. Why do I need to switch off third party apps to give Octopus full control of charging?
Without getting too techy, we’re keen to avoid a ‘too many cooks’ situation. With other apps involved, we can’t register you properly for national and local grid balancing schemes, which is how we generate the money that we turn into savings on your bill. Other apps can also add clashing charging times that don’t line up with ours, which means your car may not be fully charged when you need it. That’s no good, so we’re keen to avoid that from happening.
3. What if I don't want to switch off third party apps?
That’s not a problem but just so you know, you can’t be on Intelligent Octopus Go at the same time.
4. Why do you need to register my EV charging?
Our Intelligent Octopus tariffs help support the grid by smart charging your EV at the greenest and cheapest times possible. One of the ways we do this is by registering your EV charging so the grid knows what’s happening, and can ask us to charge (or not charge) at certain times. This way, we can avoid peak times and help make the best use of renewables.
By letting us manage your EV charging, you’re essentially acting as a mini power station for the grid. In exchange for this, we receive payments that we pass directly back to you through ultra-low charging rates on the tariff.
CW I've also seen the argument that they register your smartmeter in flexibility market as part of the IOG offering, and only one provider at a time can do so. However, I've also read that this one-provider limitation is per session, which might be as short as 30-min settlement periods. And that while IOG needs to register import mpan, axle would presumably be doing export mpan, and perhaps they are separate registrations. Though axle have also talked about also doing import events in the future.
It's all very confusing...
(The IOG T&C are explicit that it's per address, not per mpan.)
Hmmm yeah it’s pretty clear. Highlighted in the recent email from Greg at Octopus yesterday.
And understandable they don’t want two parties fighting over trying to import or export at the same time.
In reality I can export whenever I want and currently Octopus don’t have control of my batteries.
If you were to sign up to Axle and just do the manual discharges (ie Axle have no control over your charging or discharging and nor do Octopus). I don’t personally see how that would be a problem. The only issue is if you’re signed up to two different providers of “savings sessions” at the same time I guess and would effectively be getting paid twice (Although the Octopus points don’t seem anywhere near as generous as the Axle offering). Maybe if you unsubscribe from the Octopus “Saving sessions” and only use AXLE that would be ok(?). It may be worth asking this exact question to Octopus.
Alternatively sign up to Octopus’s “Charge Pack” and get a minimum of £12 a month. Although I don’t fancy giving them full control of when they charge and discharge my batteries at the moment. Does sound tempting though; they say they’ll compensate you like this;
“Battery imports cost your day-rate: We compensate you so charging effectively costs you your cheaper off-peak rate.
Battery exports to the grid: We compensate you at the difference between your import day-rate and your export unit rate.”
Anyone signed up to this yet?
Way back I did subscribe to Axle but revoked it, as I later realised I was signed up to Octopus “Savings sessions as well”. I chickened out and never participated in an Axle session.
If you haven’t given control of your system to two different parties at the same time. I really don’t see why Octopus could object if you wanted to export via the Axle offering and only the Axle offering (ie unsubscribe to Octopus’s “Savings Seasions” and only subscribe to Axles)?
Pete UK
At the moment, IOG is only importing and Axle is only ever exporting so there is no conflict to be had in terms of payments etc.
I think where this would certainly become problematic (and possibly why the T&C's are worded as they are) is if either Axle were to control you battery to import and/or you end up with bi-directional charging where Octopus (or another provider) could control your EV to discharge. At that point you have both systems being able to import and export and thus a conflict in terms of payment would arise.
Pete UK I don’t personally see how that would be a problem.
I assume Axle would want to be paid by the grid for the power. If the mechanism for that is the Flexibility Service, that is the potential point of conflict. The Octopus FAQ implies that the FS registration is per address, not per MPAN.
At that point you have both systems being able to import and export and thus a conflict in terms of payment would arise.
Shouldn't be too hard to ensure EV is unplugged during an Axle event.