Inverter Firmware Update / from 3.6kW to 5kW

Our electrician arrived with a 3.6kW inverter for a 5.85kW array.

When I queried this, I was told that the Gen 2 3.6kW inverter was identical to the 5kW inverter and that the unit could be upgraded to the higher capacity via a firmware update.

I think the electrician is scheduled to do this when the battery we ordered becomes available (hopefully soon!).

Just wondering if this information sounds correct? It's certainly plausible, but just wanted to check whether I'm being strung along by the installer!

simondoyle Looking at the data sheet for the Gen 2 Hybrid inverter and all the parameters it does seem feasible to upgrade with firmware as long as all the busbars are the same size and power electronics rated the same. Who'd have thought it?

What does the manufacturer's information plate on the side say? Does it specify max ac and dc power etc?

Tim I will grab that information when I'm home - but yes, according to the datasheet, most aspects of the two units are identical...

Just had a replacement hybrid Gen 2 inverter fitted by GE. This came as 5kw and was set to 3.6kw remotely with the engineer's laptop to match the original....simple drop down menu choice on laptop. Was also told that the 5kw inverter max output is going to be upped to 4kw in the near future. So yes, it can easily be done, but make sure the sticker on the side of inverter is swapped to match.

anthonypar Great - so it sounds like the installer is giving me accurate information!

Yes...can definitely be done by GE, so installer will probably have to get them to do it remotely.

Which is a bit odd to find out as there's places with Gen 2 3.6kw inverters in stock, whilst everyone's waiting on Gen 2 5kw inverters some time next year?!?

alphabeta77 Yes - that's what confused me!
Seeing people in the forums here talk about a lack of 5kW inverters and even using 3.6kW as a stopgap pending supply of the 5kW...

Yes, that is a bit strange. I wonder if there is Gen 1.5 where this isn't possible? Think we need a statement from GE.

My understanding originally that yes an upgrade is possible with a software update - but was corrected recently that is also required a board changing? Maybe not a problem down grading though.

simondoyle I've been promised this on my Gen1 3.6kW, however I've been waiting for 2 months and nothing has happened.

chickengeorge Yikes! I'll let you know how I get on, and vice versa.

simondoyle Unfortunately my 'Platinum' installers customer service is non existent. I've not paid them the full amount until I get the 5kW inverter I requested back in May. Regretting using them really.

chickengeorge care to share their name?

94jdh There's a good chance we already know 🙂

If it's the same one as us, we're still waiting having ordered over 8 months ago. If they install next month as promised (after 4 cancellations) it will be well over 9 months. Givenergy and the installer are equally to blame - failure to supply into the distributors and the installer taking on way more than they can handle. All round a rubbish experience to be fair.

I've finally been 'upgraded' to 5kW from 3.6kW. I'll not actually really know until next summer if it's really true. The portal does say GIV-HY5.0, but I'm not convinced.

Supposedly my installers say I don't need a G99/G100 application as it's limited to 3.68kW export. I'm not so sure, but it's on their heads.

chickengeorge Supposedly my installers say I don't need a G99/G100 application as it's limited to 3.68kW export. I'm not so sure, but it's on their heads.

Sounds right from what I've read here previously.

chickengeorge

So maybe just upgraded the DC capability of it, the AC is maybe still 3.6, but has the solar capacity of its bigger brother
instead of 4500w its 7200w

Was this a hardware upgrade or just a software upgrade on a Gen 2 inverter?

anthonypar More me it was a software upgrade/unlock on a Gen1

TheDragon (GivEnergy) I've been assured that it's 5kW ac output. I'll be kicking off if it's not.

chickengeorge
If it is then I'd thought the G99/G100 application would be needed

We had the 5kw inverter export limited to 3.68kw you DO need the G99 application, specifically the G99 A1-2 Fast Track application. Our DNO approval came through after about 94days.

The difference is that this can be submitted AFTER installation but still takes 90 days (The G100 is simply the manufacturer's declaration which needs to be submitted) AND will not fail to be approved AND will not incur any additional cost.

The normal G99 Application (for systems that are NOT export limited to 3.68kw single phase) is required to be submitted BEFORE installation and can result in various outcomes:

• NO - refusal
• Yes - with fee (upto approx £750)
• Yes - no fee

If you don't get the approval you will not be able to claim the SEG (Smart Export Guarantee) for exported electricity.

Well I've said to my installers it'll need a G99 fast track and they've said it doesn't. I agree that it does. I guess they'll just say it's 3.68kW on a G98...

chickengeorge

We were updated last week, I was told. The installer shared a screenshot of the view from their end, showing the model as GIV-HY5.0

I can't however see the model code on my end, which is a little frustrating.

As you say, the proof will come next summer, unless anyone else can suggest a way to cross check in the mean time?

From Martin (a GE tech) it does sound like as long as the portal reports it as a Hybrid 5 then you’re good.
Seemingly the Gen1 hybrids are purely software locked to 3.6 (which took a bit of coaxing out from various peoples experience as to whether anything physically needs changing)

A word of warning to others - this makes no difference to battery charge/discharge rates before everyone piles in wanting their 3.6 unlocking. That is limited by the physical busbar inside the inverter on Gen1 not being able to take any more.

simondoyle Initially I couldn't tell if it had been upgraded, however it's now showing in the portal on the inverter tab. When it was a 3.6 it didn't say the model number.

chickengeorge contact the DNO and ask them. You’ve done nothing wrong but if your installer hasn’t read the rules right then some recalibration from the DNO will help all round. Have they provided you with your MCS certificate and DNO agreement to 3.68kW so you can get a SEG tariff.

chickengeorge
Yes! I couldn't see it initially, but now I can see the number.

I would be interested to know if the 3.6 can be upgraded to a 5kw. I had my system installed in December but only have g98 with a 5.5 array south facing.
Apparently g99 Was refused but I might contact the supplier in east mids to check? Anyone else on here from east mids ?

gb908010 I know a couple of people who have challenged a rejected g99 and g100 with their local DNO to only have it rejected again. Norfolk area.

Trying to understand why you would want to.......

You have a 5.5kw PV Array (Peak or technically STC) so you probably only going to get about 80% of that under ideal conditions. Say approximately 4.4kw on the best of days during summer.

From here down I am talking about a single phase installation;

From my extensive research on the DNO Application forms, discussions with several installers prior to our own install, and participation on various consumer forums a large proportion of the installers don't actually know what they are doing with them and tend to go for the easiest submission ie. G98 (for 3.68kw or smaller installs) or G99 (for larger than 3.68kw installs).

As most people (and installers know) a G98 application cannot be refused by the DNO and can be submitted after installation. It permits a 3.6kw inverter to be installed and for the household to export upto 3.68kw back into the grid.

If you CAN upgrade to 5kw, from 3.6kw, then AS LONG AS YOU EXPORT LIMIT your installation to 3.68kw or less (which is the same level as the g98 application) the DNO cannot refuse a specific type of G99 application. This is called a G99 A1-2 Fast Track Application.

Using the G99 A1-2 Fast Track permits your installer to install any size of single phase inverter (SunSynk currently offer the largest Single Phase consumer unit @ 16kw). However they must state, as part of the application, and actually setup you system to limit your EXPORT to 3.68kw.

THIS IS DIFFERENT TO A STANDARD G99 Application which must be submitted AND APPROVED by the DNO BEFORE INSTALLATION.

gb908010 If yours is a gen2 hybrid, the firmware can be upgraded by Givenergy as the internals are the same. If it's not a gen2 then no. G99 shouldn't be refused but they can require you to limit export by software to 3.68kW, and as @dragon2905 says, the DNO has to agree to your G99 application before connecting to the network (or upgrading the firmware in your case).

Tim thanks Tim, how do I know which inverter i have?

It ststaew on my dashboard SA2221G519

Just for the curveball @Tim several people have had their Gen 1 Hybrids upped from 3.6 to 5kW remotely so it's the assumption that these too are the same internally although similar to the new SOC firmware that may only apply to the "newer" ones with the extra capacitor!

gb908010 Give Givenergy a call or web chat from their contact us page and ask them if yours could be upped to 5kW if you were able to get the G99 fast track application sorted through your installer. As @hoggy says, it's either not possible, or if it has the capacitor necessary, then it's a firmware update. BTW, the manufacturer's data plate on the right hand side of the inverter (and battery) is the best place to identify exactly which inverter you have. I've got photos of all of mine so I can refer to them as and when I need to.

Having read through this, is the takeaway is that the difference between the gen2 3.6kW and 5.0kW hybrid is a different sticker, a flag in the software, and £50 wholesale ?

A better deal than my ford Sat navigation, which was £1000 to enable a built in feature and provide an SD card.

:-)

Tim I’ve got photos of mine as well now. I’ve messaged givenergy

hoggy so what benefit do you get from upgrading to a 5kw? Just a newbie here with next to no knowledge😂

gb908010 Increased DC input from battery of 3.6kW and the potential to increase PV input without changing your inverter.

hoggy I thought the Gen1 versions needed a small hardware change as well which the Gen2 versions don't for the upgrade?

94jdh there's people on FB group that have had it done without any visit - just a few keyboard taps on GE's end. Whether that applies to all of them since day 1 or some sort of hardware revision at some point last year I don't know.

hoggy maybe the early Gen1 versions needed an upgrade, possibly related to the ones that may need something for SoC issue on the other thread?

To clarify on this as I've seen and heard a lot about it - that it's not something we do. There were some very old installers that had some capabilities of doing this with some special software due to errors in early supply chains but has since been revoked as this is not something currently looking to be offered in any product gen 1 or 2.