All in one launched... and price!

https://givenergy.co.uk/all-in-one

https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/giv-energy/giv-all-in-one
£6493.50

https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/giv-energy/giv-gateway
£388.84

Interesting - what does 7.2kw peak power mean vs 6kw continuous?

Given most households will be charging cars at 7.2kw these days, it still feels like I'd need two of these to properly support charging a car?

It says you can have up to six of these, I wonder if they can play with a Gen2 5kw inverter? I suspect not and will need to wait for the EMS device to finally appear to allow me to charge my cars properly?

Right I want of these. I assume it will work alongside my Gen2 5kw hybrid and 9.5 battery?

If it works as described then I'm not really seeing how anyone would stump up for a Libbi, despite the integration possibilities of the MyEnergi ecosystem.

AIO with Gateway (proving whole-house backup and islanding) and 13.6kWh storage = £6.5K +VAT and Delivery
Libbi 3.6kWh inverter and 15kWh storage. No home backup, no islanding and only 3.6kW output = £11.5K +VAT and Delivery.

If GE can deliver on this then they are on to a winner. I wouldn't want to be the first purchaser though until they've shown that they can deliver.

RHardie not initially I think. But maybe in the future.

TX200 thanks.

So @TheDragon (GivEnergy) …..

How confident are you really that this system does what it says on the tin? Would you put your hard earned down on it.

Also what kind of support commitments are there? If I was stupid enough to be an early adopter are you going to have my back?

Also will this work with any solar inverter and charge when there is no grid or does it have to be a GE one to charge the battery from PV if there is a power cut?

Tim Adams That £6493.50 price includes the gateway :-) If the government does remove VAT on home storage batteries that puts the AIO with gateway at £7k fully installed!

I am wondering if there will be a discount on 2nd 3rd 4th AIO etc like tesla offer with the powerwalls, second unit is cheaper. Don't get me wrong this is a great price, but I am wondering if a £500 discount on the second unit is an option. If I didn't already have GE kit I would be looking at 2 of these :-)

THALL agreed. This is what I was ideally trying to achieve unfortunately it turned up 8 months too late😩😂. Can’t justify (unless I win the lottery and then who cares!) changing my setup now, and tbf, you go with what you can find at the time. I dread to think what our energy bills would have been without our system over the winter so it was worth it.

So I’m genuinely considering this due to potential delays elsewhere

Thoughts appreciated on what has been seen or if I’m on a hiding to nothing.

Re: the libbi, there is a 5kW inverter which in a stack is the same if less than the prices mentioned above.

Anyone notice the price of these just jumped up nearly £600? That was quick lol

kram I am hearing bad things about the libbi, actually the only good thing I have heard is it works the myenergi ecosphere. But 2 installers and 1 reviewer have told me the same thing, poor quality cheap battery priced much higher than it should be. Myenergi as a company, great, the libbi and who actually make it, bad very bad. My main installer doesn't recommend them after reviewing one, he wont install for customers who ask for it. He did however rave about the GE AIO after seeing it at the trade shows. He is hoping to do 2 demo installs before installing for other customers.

I think they’ve just ditched the separate listings for the AIO & Gateway so now it comes with the gateway no matter what.

THALL I know I’m not always ‘captain flag wave’ for GE as there are still issues that shouldn’t really have made it out the door but having disassembled a Gen 1 hybrid I am actually impressed how well made all the boards are. Decent quality components (Japanese capacitors and so on) and you can tell there’s been some QA going on through assembly.
If it were my turn again I’d have no problem taking on the AIO as an early adopter.

hoggy Based on what my installer friend and reviewer friend have said, if GE would like a real world demo customer for the AIO I would be more than happy to extra my AC3, 8.2 and 9.5 for one ;-) Would give it a full review from a plug in and let it run perspective :-D

I’ll be out of time to decide if to take the plunge or not soon.

One thing for the AIO buyers to consider is you will need a solar inverter in addition to the AIO and gateway.

No problem at all and being AC means it should play nicer with chargers etc, but it’s another £1000-1500 to put on the cost.

THALL

Battery has CATL cells/ and I am told is a CATL product with matched BMS attached to a kstar inverter.

Not saying anything until I’ve seen it but a 10% failure rate with good support is better than a 3% failure rate with poor support if you’re a customer with a problem.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other, but as solaredge are using the same batteries for their 48v storage system I’ll take the installer’s comments with a pinch of salt.

Some take the view that I’d they can sell/install GE but can’t get or have not done libbi training then the product must be “crap”.

Personally I’d love to see both side by side, but I’d love to have a working solar installation asap even more.

kram You will need separate solar inverter with the AIO. It is an AC coupled unit. To be honest if I was doing all this from scratch I would go down the micro inverter route for my solar with an AIO. enphase while a little more cost it has more benefits. There are some benefits to hybrids but there are benefits to AC coupled too. My current setup is 3 different solis inverters for my PV , 1x AC3 2 batteries.

Seeing as Charge Rate doesn’t matter in this case I can’t see why a Gen1 hybrid wouldn’t do the trick as the “solar inverter” only (so just don’t fit a battery)
They are trying to get rid of stock and other than 11A per string limit there is little else between G1-G3 if you don’t care about the battery side - so should be able to get hold of them cheap. (It’s a handy way for installers to offload the ones they got for free from the Segen battery deal - buy a battery and get a free inverter..)

Just means it’s all in one app then rather than the AIO on one and the PV on another.

hoggy

Gives people with just PV and inverters a pretty decent intro into battery storage too. Why go for a 9.5 battery when you can get a 13.6kWh, + gateway + whole house backup for £3K more.

What I want to understand is how the gateway can island the AC coupled AIO (I.e generate it’s sine wave) (and potentially sync two or more if you install multiples), yet doesn’t seem to have the same capability for the existing AC3

Zakalwe Cost? Space?

Smk82 same way the powerwall gateway does. The main feed to your house goes into the gateway device so an isolator between you and the grid. Auto switch over eps, just much much faster!

THALL

THALL Cost? Space?

For sure. But if you were in the market to add a couple of batteries to an existing inverter then it might be an excellent upgrade path.

Zakalwe Oh totally agree! Knowing what I know how I would have something very different to what I currently have.

Ideal setup
Enphase micro inverters on all panels
545w panels covering all roof space (16kw)
2x GivEnergy AIO
1x GivEnergy Gateway
1x GivEnergy EV Charger

THALL
Not quite what I was getting at. I’ve been told that due to the inability of keeping the sine waves in sync with the grid is why two AC3s can’t be combined to give EPS total.

Yet if two AIO are together, the gateway can. So I just want to understand why.

I assume the first AIO pretends to be the grid, the other 2-5 AIOs connected to it follow the first one (pretending the 1st AIO is the grid).

I've not seen any diagrams of multiple AIOs in use - and officially I hear multiple AIOs is "coming soon" rather than available now.

It's not the gateway that's physically syncing the two (it may well be acting as the conductor of the orchestra though.) It's the AIO's physically syncing.

Presumably because the AIO doesn't have a standalone EPS output (like the AC 3 does) you don't have to worry about inadvertently backfeeding into it (because it's working just as it would were the grid there) & therefore multiple AIO's can sync together (& frequency shift - this is important later) to the master using the "normal" logic.
They also all talk to one another over Canbus unlike the AC3's (so you can share meter/ load / CT data to all units aswell):

In an AC3, the EPS output is a separate output from the Grid Input (when the EPS is working) - it has no sync capability to "follow" a sinewave like it does when on grid. It is essentially like having one of those standalone 12V car inverters - a fixed, 230V waveform @50Hz output.

"But why can't you feed one EPS into the AC Grid side of another" - You probably can - to a point - but it's when loads rise & fall sharply you'll start to come unstuck as (in normal operation) the slack/excess would be taken by the grid while the inverter reacts and changes output to suit. (the Grid is pretty much immovable in this context in regards to voltage & freq.)
In this scenario you'd push back excess into the EPS (that it won't like) and at best blow the board before voltage rise starts causing problems for your appliances.

Frequency Shift - How does the AIO manage to control other manufacturers PV inverters to slow/stop production when in Island mode & the batteries are full to stop voltage rise from a glut of unused power? - likely by pushing the local frequency above 50Hz. PV inverters will see this and gradually derate output to 0W. Once there is room in the batteries again the AIO will move the frequency back nearer to 50Hz and the cycle repeats...

I hope they don't mind but someone posted an internal shot of the gateway i've basically pinched. You can see it has far more going on inside. Bottom left is the comms connections for AIO's - at the very top you'll see there is a logic board, which appears to have processors so is not just "thick" & which also contains the Grid Relays to enable Island mode.

hoggy Frequency Shift - How does the AIO manage to control other manufacturers PV inverters to slow/stop production when in Island mode & the batteries are full to stop voltage rise from a glut of unused power? - likely by pushing the local frequency above 50Hz. PV inverters will see this and gradually derate output to 0W. Once there is room in the batteries again the AIO will move the frequency back nearer to 50Hz and the cycle repeats...

You are very correct.

SoC >90% OffGrid Mode. F.Hz rises untill 52.5 and all string inverters G98/G99 are to have 0W output (The law)
SOC < 80% F.Hz is tuned back towards 50Hz and the string inverters begin to increase power back to full. The process repeats and the SoC oscillates between 80-90% while Off Grid is maintained. You can live like this indefinitely
.

TheDragon (GivEnergy) cool stuff.

Unless I'm being blind I can't see a breaker/protection for the gateway ancillaries?
What's protecting the controller PCB etc... other than the cut-out fuse? Fuses on the PCB or something?

(I assume all the meters are fed from the controller.)

It’s a slightly more industrial looking version of the Tesla gateway in terms of functionality.

That is no bad thing and if I was confident I could count on GE to have my back I would probably install an AIO/gateway an SMA inverter and 7-8kWp of panels.

Being AC means the charger CT clamp can probably work. The comms is all good.

Libbi does similar things around charge as do most hybrids, but the fact GE have it in an AC is very nice.

If you want a beta tester do shout and I would genuinely put them in touch with the installer. Even to the point of NDA until it plays nice and give a fair review when it is working.

As it stands it’s a non GE hybrid with panels as my option, but at a future house…

hoggy PCB fuse's

kram You would love to know the emails i get for beta testing hardware.

Thee are already a plethora of AIO testers receiving their deliveries soon.

I currently have an AC3 and two 9.5 battery's that was installed in February this year.
Does anyone know if GivEnergy offers a buy back, exchange, or upgrade service?
As I am really temped to change out for a single or duel AIO system, as the current 3kw charge/discharge is just not quite enough at times.

MadProfessor2002 Does anyone know if GivEnergy offers a buy back, exchange, or upgrade service?

No.

MadProfessor2002 duel AIO system

Dual is coming soon

TheDragon (GivEnergy)

I didn’t expect to get taken up on it, but essentially I’m going down the libbi route.
When I said beta I wasn’t suggesting free, more a case of lining up the ducks.

I can see AIO available at wholesalers and it was on the options list, but it’s the confidence thing. Hence that beta comment.

The AIO looks like a good product tbh and if not now, the next house it’ll be a definite consideration.

So does anyone own one of these yet?

kram Agree, I can't even consider an AIO until I'm sure the current kit will function correctly , untouched >90% of the time. Set and forget, no worries about what charge levels it cycles between, guaranteed to have emergency power when I need it, not an unexpected 50% drop at an unfortunate time. At the price, that's not something I'm prepared to accept.

@TheDragon (GivEnergy)

Do you know if the AIO or the gateway has a g100 compliant export limiter built in?

kram The AIO can be configured with any export limit from 0 to your required value.

I have seen one now installed on 3700w limit.
One on 5k limit.
The export G100 declaration is on the ENA site to download to submit along with G99 if needed

TheDragon (GivEnergy)

Thanks.
I don’t suppose you have a link handy so I can send it to my supplier do you?

Edit:

If I used a SE inverter can I assume that would go into the gateway and could be limited by the gateway? Or do I have that wrong and each AIO has the g100 in the battery?

kram You may already know this, and to be honest it might not mean anything. But didn't myenergi just lay off a load of staff to save money?

THALL

TBH I’ve had enough of the changing spec sheets, dates, broken promises from the whole solar industry. I am very seriously just considering not bothering and putting the money towards bills and other things.

Whilst potential staff layoffs may mean nothing, they may mean a lot when it’s all controlled by a cloud platform. Do you have a source or any additional information?

kram I will check with who told me and post it here.

kram A quick google

https://www.business-live.co.uk/manufacturing/jobs-set-go-myenergi-growth-26939197

Even their own forum

https://myenergi.info/news-of-myenergi-redundancies-t9259.html

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news/business/almost-quarter-workforce-grimsby-firm-8450302

Ouch…

TheDragon (GivEnergy)

Sorry to ask Paul, but I call up tomorrow morning and ask to the right person about the AIO, software etc is that you?

Essentially I’m looking at throwing away the libbi and fitting solar + inverter and a gateway/AIO. In the future I may expand when the heating goes electric for more output.

I’ve got until noon to decide the change or there won’t be an install.

A couple of immediate questions:

If the AIO g100 is set to a value below 6kW does that affect all output to the home, the output only on grid, backup or just the export.

Will it play nice with a solaredge inverter and a zappi car charger and do they connect to the gateway?

Also my supplier is saying the install might have to go back months with a whole pile of extra installation charges if we split the install. Some wholesalers had stock but now have none and dates in July/August so some understanding on reality would be great.

Sorry to ask publicly, I would PM you but sadly this forum doesn’t have that functionality.

kram As I understand it, the G100 /G98 etc limit applies to the amount of power you can export to the grid, i.e. leaving your property. If you use it on your property it doesn't count. So the HY or AIO needs to monitor the amount going to the grid, not the amount the inverter outputs.

No idea about the inverter/zappi. I have a Zappi + HY5 Gen2 and they do work more or less together. Not wonderfully happy with the Zappi as it's failed (completely) a couple of times now.

kram Are you referring to export limit? The AIO will provide 6kw to the home and will have whatever export limit set as agreed with your DNO. Example my AC3 so the same AC coupled tech, can supply 3kw to the house but it is also set for export limit of 8kw. So it should top up export to 8kw max if I every dumped the battery to it. There are different pro's and con's to having AC coupled or hybrid inverters.

It also shouldn't care which PV inverter you have same as the AC3 unit. If it see's export it should grab it to charge the battery unless the battery is full. As for the zappi you will need to tweaking to get it to work how you want, I am happy to list my zappi settings I have set for my ac coupled setup? Do they connect to the gateway, don't think so, not directly. The gateway sits between your grid connection and consumer unit to provide whole home failover in event of a powercut.

As for your installer yes there would be some extra wiring involved having solar pv/inverter and the AIO vs libbi but £200 - £400 at a guess, might need large consumer unit, more wiring time due to the gateway etc. Not sure about delaying for months however, unless the AIO have already sold out? Can still order now split the order and save on VAT.

Happy to be corrected if anything I have said above is wrong. But as far as I know the AIO is just an AC coupled system. The gateway is the additional device for whole home failover. Anyone with a zappi and AC3 can assist you with setting on the zappi to avoid battery unwanted battery drain.

rivimey

I have had zero issue with the zappi and would recommend it. I just had seen the gateway has an input for an EV charger and wondered if any went there or just the GE one.

G100 wise, that is my thought too but if you dropped the Powerwall to 3.68, I was told house load dropped too. Just wanted to understand expectations.

The extra labour is due to the split delivery .

Just been told they won’t even quote it as the certificate is showing as pending.

Pretty awful, so it would be a later install and subject to VAT.

Genuinely feel sick and open to any advice.

kram Thats not good. Though is a chance the government will remove VAT from home storage batteries. No idea if that will actually happen or timescale. But seems likely.

kram There are many already installed.

Depends on if your DNO accepts the G99 certificate direct, download it from ENA and the G100 is there too

There are 6 in the wild, which to be honest I wasn't expecting till ENA approves the paperwork. But hey, some are managing to jump the gun some how

TheDragon (GivEnergy) I think some are installed as "demo" units. I know my preferred installer was about to do one under this premise.

kram Different kind of advice - you were about to switch from a preferred option literally hours before the install and have been massively undecided for weeks on a big ticket purchase. That's a huge amount of pressure you just put on yourself right there, and if it didn't work out you'd be kicking yourself even more. Not saying I know what the right choices for you are, just that these decisions are stressing you a lot, understandably. Personally, I've just decided to wait until GE works as near as faultless in the wild and anyone that tries to pressure me to install before that can do one lol, it's just not that important to me now. As you said yourself recently, the money can go towards bills in the interim. A year later for install ought to mean a year of extra use at the other end so it's no biggie. I want to be happy with what I install, when it's installed and I won't be pressured into it by anyone, even if that means I end up waiting a year (or 'possibly losing out' in salesman's speak lol 😉 )
Oh, and FWIW, I still believe under Paul's guidance, GE will get to the bottom of this, so I will wait 😉 - it's just too much money for me to spend without absolute certainty ie. I need to see it working for others as I want it to before I part with the cash.
Enjoy the sunshine 🙂

Yeah, well the libbi has gone as not up to what it said it could do.

The installation has gone back and I now have three valid options and time to think.

1) 7.5kW E/W hanging off a g3 5kW hybrid and 9.5 battery.

2) AIO/gateway and 7.5kW E/W hanging off a solaredge.

3) ask for my money back and just don’t do it.

Having the decision by lunch time pressure removed means I can look properly at it.

Question I guess is will costs go back down or further up for solar equipment. Oh and how many companies will still be there when the double glazing bubble pops.

Our original install was nov21 and then the installer let us down repeatedly and we ended up having to talk to Hies. I think I’m fed up on one hand as we originally asked pre the vat cut. Nearly 2 years later we feel no closer.

TheDragon (GivEnergy)

Midsummer had a few in stock.

Out of interest is it in beta and how is charging/SoC behaviour on the AIO that are out there already?

Also can the 5 year warranty be extended or is that it?

@kram re VAT our neighbour’s installer let them have a battery a few weeks after the panels , (they couldn’t decide at first, then realised they did need one), because the battery was on the quote and it was in the same VAT period
Installation dates going back is rarely good news in general though

kram you can extend warranty to 10 years but need to do so within 60 days of commissioning.

Castlehill
And you need to know it is even an option. if your installer doesn't mention it that's it.

kram Can I just ask, why a solaredge? They are more expensive than say a solis, unless you want the optimisers?

Availability and the ability to cope with larger DC inputs and not lose the warranty.

I’d actually like SMA sunny boy and the installer sold solis in the past but had issues with warranty claims (they said)

One other advantage with a metal roof is the 1v when not running should anyone need to go on the roof to work on things and the additional arc protection.

A mixed advantage and disadvantage is being able to monitor panels and detect faults having to go up on the roof. Of course a faulty optimiser means a trip up.

kram Have you considered a quote for micro inverters? Given the chance to start over I would personally be looking at enphase

Sadly I don’t think my supplier does that or I would.

Are waiting times still as stupid as they used to be on solar installers?

Separate question, as the battery packs are modular do we know if the inverter is replaceable also?

kram Depends on the size of the install. But yes my preferred install is booked up until the end of October now. I only got my 3rd pv installed quickly because it was 5 panels on a single storey. Took them 3 hours.

No idea about the inverter.

MadProfessor2002 Yes I have the same problem. 2 9.5 batteries and a 5kw hybrid. From what I have learnt the hard way .I need on occasions 5kw for swimming pool. A great option for me would be 2 inverters , 3kw , 1 9.5 battery on each and split the solar array over both inverters. That would give me 2.6 x 2 . I have been told that GE are working on this - I take it it is a software issue.
Looking forward to an update from GE on the ability to couple 2 inverters.

Trumper Dual hybrids are not a recommended configuration but we have two HY5s, each with its own Batt8.2. Since neither knows of the other, they both just get on with doing their thing. The only issue we have experienced with this set up is them bickering over who gets to export. Between them, they jack up the voltage until the DNO export limit is reached. They only move it up a few volts each and it's only become a major nuisance since our neighbours installed PV resulting in higher local network voltage during sunny days. The DNO has now reduced the 33/11kV transformer voltage for the whole area slightly and the Zappi no longer trips on overvoltage.

The portal isn't quite right for the dual hybrid installation (only shows house load from one inverter) and reports are a bit askew, but individual inverter data is good and the inverters themselves effectively halve the response times as each only has half the power to ramp up. And of course, we can get up to 5kW from battery when necessary.

So just wondering again if anyone has their hands on an AIO plus gateway and if so what the state of play is with it?

kram think I saw someone on one of the fbook pages who had one in. Get the impression he might have been an installer though.

I've actually got a gateway (because...well I don't know really... it seemed interesting)
Not had a chance to paw through it but it's quite different internally compared to say the Tesla gateway (less polish / more agricultural in development) but given it'll spend 99.9% of it's time with the lid on then is anyone too fussed about that?

Only had 10mins look inside but the main board looks like a mashup of the inverter controller, wifi and a relay board all rolled into one.

I think for rev2 it could really do with using harmonised core colours as it is stuck in 2004 (surprised seeing red & black again)
Type AC RCDs for the AIO & PV Inverter?
Really not keen on the EM115 meters being directly connected to 100A/80A busbars either.

I'll likely do a better rundown on it when I've finished ruining my Gen 1...
GE Gateway:

Tesla Gateway:

kram

I have an AIO & Gateway installed, my installer, who i work with from time to time, has done it as a test install.
The commissioning needs simplifying, without a charge/discharge cycle half way through.
I already have a solar system, so the grid export will no larger than that.

Have had one for a few weeks/months. Why not, i work for them.

What do you need to know about it

TheDragon (GivEnergy)
How is the software working?
Despite hoggy ’s comments on the lash up nature of the design it looks functional, better than the battery soldering in the early Teslas anyhow(!!)
But given this forum’s coverage it’s the firmware that dictates user happiness!
Btw our hardware is working fine no rush to upgrade software (if not broke etc) our early issues were purely installer related.

I might have missed it but I thought the AIO inverter is not compatible to take to Solar PV strings?

I was planning to add this due to 13.5kw size to begin with and then look at adding another battery after 12 months if needed but my plan will need to change if this doesn't work with Solar PV. According to the chap I spoke to at GE it will only monitor solar.

Also said other capacity batteries will be enabled in future updates but not currently available.

So the options I think as it stands

1. AIO 13.5kw + gateway
2. 9.5kw x2 and hybrid inverter + solar pv + gateway

Bal they can work with AC connected solar (e.g. a different solar inverter) but not connect DC strings.

They can also keep AC connected solar powered up whilst off grid, e.g. generate and use/store in the battery whilst the grid is down.

https://youtu.be/uC3EfFVKfCQ

Speak to the Geek’s AIO has arrived!

Bal gateway only works with AIO.

TheDragon (GivEnergy)

1) installer says I should do warranty extension direct with GE, is this correct?

1b) Can you replace just the inverter if it fails?

2) how is the SoC playing on the HV battery?

3) how is the load, can it actually do a consistent 6kW or is it more 5-6 based on conditions.

4) how is the gateway playing

5) does the solar charging when grid is offline work as expected with a range of inverters.

I’ve just gone down the SE with an AIO+ gateway route, so the other question is how is stock an will my supplier be able to get the gateway AIO?

@TheDragon (GivEnergy)

Aware you gave a full plate but don’t suppose you have any comments on the AIO, particularly the above?

THALL I have known of the existence of micro inverters/optimisers/... for a long time, but had assumed that they were DC-DC affairs - i.e. power converters that took you from variable panel DC to a fixed voltage to put on the bus.

I know know that at least some of them are actual inverters - Solar DC to AC 50Hz (not sure if 230V or something else).

From what I know of electronics, this feels weird - surely a DC-only system with one large inverter elsewhere would be best for this? Any thoughts?

Something on another post got me looking at the peak load capabilities of the AIO and just reminded me about the old AC3.

AIO Nominnal: 6000W
AC3 Nominal: 3000W

AIO peak load: 7200W for 10s.
AC3 peak load: 3600VA(W) for 10 seconds.
(Used to be on old datasheets)

So....is the AIO a variation of 2x AC3s inside?
(Although dealing with HV battery I guess makes that much less "shove 2 of these in a box" but perhaps ditches the HV DC to 51.2V stage on the old AC3)

rivimey A DC only system would give higher efficiency in terms of panels to battery, panel to home still needs to be converted. But micro inverters offer higher yields , high resilience against failure/issues. My current battery system is ac coupled and I have no real issues with efficiency but some people do, some as high as 20% loss, 10% in 10% out. Lots of variables, but personally I would recommend micro inverters and an aio to anyone who asks me what they should get, then work backwards to lower the cost! :-)

Hey, is this compatible with GE's broader range or is it dumb to everything else?

Eg as I've got a Gen 2 Hybrid setup with 2 x 9.5kwh batteries, is it an option that I could buy a couple of AIOs and connect each to a 9.5kwh battery to increase capacity?

It’s stand alone I believe, so whilst they can work as separate systems, you couldn’t direct connect a 9.5 to an AIO.

i think there is some talk of future options may include

1. retro fit a gateway to existing Gen1 and/or Gen2 systems?

2. Potentially adding AIO as upgrade to existing Gen1/Gen2 systems?

3. Options to increase capacity of AIO will clearly be needed.

   • Assume only one AIO (one gateway needed and it wont need the inverter element) so should have a "dumb" battery .... at much cheaper cost?
   • hopefully capacity to add several batteries to make the system able to supply ASHP, EVs etc in an extended outage?
   • max draw may be an issue in scenarios with large ASHP and EVs?

not sure if anything further confirmed?

Tim Adams its all a bit wooly around that so I'd take all of it with a pinch of salt until its actually in the flesh. Many GE ideas come and go.

You could also upgrade the existing AIO battery modules I guess as a future idea.
Higher capacity cells as time goes on in same modules, slide out old ones, slot in new ones. Higher total capacity without buying the top half containing the inverter.

Tim Adams if there is news of those in suprised. Every time I’ve queried regarding a gateway retrofit for gen1/2 systems I’ve been told an emphatic no, it won’t work and not any plans on the horizon to do a way to make it work either

Smk82 i was given a more positive "watch this space" type answer ... from someone that should know.

but overall I think decisions have to be made now on basis of what is actually announced.

I am installing a new system in our annexe once extension is built. original plan was for 5kw Hybrid inverter + 9.5kw battery with 16-20 panels solar with manual eps.

but of course now more likely AIO and will watch for potential upgrade in future to add another battery.

partly need to see how long term Octopus Tracker import rates vs Fixed export rates settle down. Currently around 18p import vs 15p export so not worth huge battery capacity - particularly as we don't get high numbers of power cuts.

But everyone is likely to have differing needs, priorities!

Tim Adams very true. One can only go with what is available at the time. When I had my system installed there was no mention of AIO. If that had been available when I was choosing my system I would have gone with that as then I’m protected by house back up, panels still work and I would still have the better AC integration for my ME kit plus it’s a “neater” install overall. Hindsight is a wonderful thing😂

If they can produce a gateway which will allow for full house backup/panels still generating for existing AC systems I will be very interested, especially if it can handle multiple inverters

my main house system is Gen1... 5kw hybrid inverter with 3 x 8.2kw batteries ... and manual whole house changeover eps with 8.9kw solar. Very happy with it generally as it was installed 2021 before prices spiked upwards on batteries etc.

Can't imagine it will make sense to upgrade in any foreseeable future

obviously would be nice to be able to charge/discharge batteries at more that 2.6kwh but as I mentioned before its not a problem while energy prices are where they are ... with decent export rates all day.

You could get from 2.6 to 3.6 just by changing the inverter to a gen 2/3 and keeping the gen 1 as an emergency spare.

Obviously there is a cost to that which may not pay itself back.

kram yes, for now does not seem worthwhile especially as Octopus Tracker import around 18p and Standard Fixed Export at 15p does not make the batteries so important to maximise exports via timed exports. We don't get many power cuts

but will watch for changes in import/export prices etc to see if viability changes too.

alphabeta77 peak is likely to mean for short timeframes, e.g. 30-60 seconds. Useful for appliances which use a lot but in short bursts, which may be over the 6kW continuous but not long enough to need the 7.2kW for more than that "peak" so to speak.