GivEnergy Smart Plug nearly burned down my house!

This plug is rated at 16 A (16 x 230 = 3680 W) the drier is a domestic drier on a 13 A plug and socket. You can see it's drawing well under 3200 W.

The smell alerted me.

This is terrible! I wanted to share so no one dies or loses their home. And to rant. Why rate at 16 A but catch on fire at 13 A ?

I've used this for about 9 months. I have many others, but mostly on things like TV, fridge, washing machine, freezer. I wonder if I should remove those too? Is there a more reputable brand that would work with the dashboard?

Daniel no other brands will work in the GE dashboard, but this doesn't look good. I would get straight on to their customer service about it and remove all others until you know they're safe.

Will do.

A good reply. Snippit from the reply:

"Thank you for raising this to us we treat cases like this very seriously. I've looked into our documentation surrounding high current use and have ensured some adjustments are made to our documentation for the power rating these plugs should operate at.

We have also raised this internally and will be taking this up with our manufacturing partner.

Please ensure this should not happen and your other plugs should be completely fine, please ensure going forwards you operate a plug within the specs below.

16A - 1 min
13A - 5 min
10A - Continuous"

So the take home is - THEY ARE NOT rated at 16 A. They are rated at 10 A or 2300 W. But can handle very short peaks to 16A.

10A = 2300 W (230 V X 10 A)

I will make sure all my other appliances are not using over 2300 W (e.g. washing machine or dish washer).

How can it output 16A when it is in a 13A socket ? Nothing plugged into it will ever draw 16A as the maximum fuse is 13A ?
I assume the relay is just rated at 16A, not the socket

Daniel But that's true of any 13A outlet. So if a dryer comes with a 13A plug, it shouldn't be drawing more than 10A for long periods. (EV granny chargers have exactly the same issues - high power for long periods.)

simont from what I can see, 13A fuses do not actually blow at 13A, they can run at 20A indefinitely...
https://www.pat-testing-training.net/articles/fuse-operation-characteristics.php
https://www.connected-fidelity.com/news-from-connected-fidelity/why-a-british-standard-13a-rated-fuse-does-not-blow-at-13a

What does the drier instructions say about running it via smart plugs or extension leads.

Most of my high usage appliances, including things like electric heaters say do not use with extension leads or timers.

I am not sure people read documentation. If a plug says 16 A on it then people will expect it to handle 16 A - not 16 A peak. The smart plug should say 10A and then 16 A peak 1 min etc in brackets. And have a temperature overload feature and cut off and report it in the app if they get overloaded. Or more fires are likely.

In my case it was taking 3075 W (13.4 A) for a few mins before it caught fire but mostly 2213 W 9.6 A) continuously. So their newly stated ratings are right on the edge!

Dryer is a Miele so not a low quality one.

I have checked my other appliances and they all use 10 A or less so they should be fine.

I hope they will make a plug that can handle 13 A continuously, because I'd like to be able to monitor the drier.

TX200 Doesn't say anything.

Actually I think the dishwasher plug needs removing too. Not quite as much as the drier peaks but it uses 2329 W = 10.04 A x 230 V sustained and peak.

I've got a Tapo smart plug, that has got overheat detection built into it. Not sure about the GE smart plugs though, guessing maybe not!

This is from the "datasheet" (here):

That's quite poor data, only showing the peak and not indicating what the sustained rating is or indicating what the difference between peak or continuous is in either time or current terms.

They are fairly generic (RMC003 part number gives that away) so you may find internals / teardown for those somewhere. Although ultimately yours will probably come apart easier now!

Never liked smart plugs because they are generally not that reliable, also never saw the point either, given you can run appliance X and monitor its usage pattern/profile on the portal anyway.

hoggy Contacts on the switch are always cheap crap in these things so usually any hint of an inductive load over 3A and its goodnight vienna for another piece of smartcrap.

If people are going to run anything other than trivial loads from timers/smartplugs/whatever then buy an appropriately rated contactor block.

Daniel This plug is rated at 16 A (16 x 230 = 3680 W) the drier is a domestic drier on a 13 A plug and socket. You can see it's drawing well under 3200 W.

That's bonkers no wonder that happened

The uk socket can only go to 3000w, using a direct wire and plug rated 13a

You push this limit you risk fire

Using adaptors most lower this value (smart plugs etc)

So whats the problem your drier my friend

I once read somewhere that long running devices in the UK are never meant to draw more than 10A. Nothing should be pulling > 10A for a prolonged period.

That reply suggesting maximum run times smacks of "covering themselves"
It is clear that your particular smart socket had a bad joint in manufacture causing high resistance and heat build up.
I have had a couple do this but I have many that handle the power fine..
Since my first one did this ( a TP link one) I have checked them during use for the first few times.

There is little or none quality control in mass manufacturing any more.

lifco

No. The problem is a plug that states its rating is 16 A is actually a 10 A.

positor1

It's a smart plug. If it truly had that rating why doesn't the app warn you it's overloaded? It should. So I agree with you.

The only appliance we have that doesn’t have its own timer is a very bog standard tumble dryer that I use at night with an ancient mechanical timer that was rated for immersion heaters. Obviously it doesn’t connect to anything - if you want to change the settings you have to physically pull out the pins! - but it also doesn’t even get warm never mind catch on fire!

SimonClarke I don't speak from experience, but have heard many people express concerns about fire risk from running tumble driers unattended. I guess it's risk of fluff blocking vents and igniting ..? Apparently newer heat-pump based ones are safer ?

The fluff is the problem. Just need to clean it out. I use a vacuum.

Daniel Thanks for posting your experience with the smartplugs and the response from Givenergy. I have been intending to use a couple of them for operating the dishwasher and washing machine at night but now I am not so sure. I will have to check the average and peak power consumption of them.

killythebid If your appliances don't have a built-in timer, is there any difficulty in getting them to automatically start when mains power is applied? Maybe the old-fashioned mechanical ones might have been okay (am I showing my age ?), but with the digital displays, normally, you have to set a program and start it. One trick I have heard about is to actually set it up and start it, then turn it off at the mains (as if there's a power cut). Then when power is "restored" via the timeswitch, they resume operation. Might not work for all appliances, though.

I'll mention "fingerbot" in passing: a wifi switch with a mechanical arm that physically presses the start button.

DD exactly what I do with the mechanical switch as the drier won’t stay on without power. Put the timer to on switch the machine on then put the timer back to timer switching.

Seems like the spec is for an EU socket, not a UK 13A socket as they have a max current of 13A, unsurprisingly, and 3kW. EU plugs are 16A.

I have a load of MyLocalBytes smart plugs that are flashed with Tasmota but look visually identical to the GivEnergy ones https://www.mylocalbytes.com/products/smart-plug-pm

Interestingly they say rated as 16A EU/ 13A UK which would lead me to believe that they are actually rated to 16A but as nophead says the UK socket limit is 13A.

I only use them for power monitors on the tumble dryer, washing machine, dishwasher, etc because as @DD says, they require a button to be pressed before they will start if power is restored. Fortunately all the appliances have a delay function although its a crude 3/6/9 hours on two of them.

geoffreycoan Interestingly they say rated as 16A EU/ 13A UK which would lead me to believe that they are actually rated to 16A but as nophead says the UK socket limit is 13A.

Found a picture of inside the localbytes ones and they have a 16A relay. I assume thats where the 16A comes from

[(https://community.home-assistant.io/t/serial-flashing-localbytes-plug-v2/630918)]

simont thanks for finding that, that’s good to know, I wasn’t massively worried about using them for the tumble dryer etc, but given they looked visually similar to the GivEnergy ones, I was wondering if they were similarly low rated components inside.

The mylocalbytes were recommended by someone on this forum. I um’d about lots of options, nearly went for Athom ones, but there was variable reviews whereas the MLB ones all had good reviews and good comments about customer service, plus its a small British firm so good to support where I can

Daniel No. The problem is a plug that states its rating is 16 A is actually a 10 A

That's true mate, but you should never push the 3000 watt limit, you said you was hitting 3200 watts ?

geoffreycoan Same here. Over the years I have tried many, many plugs. Jules-V, Teckin (in the old days when they were esp8266 and tasmota was easy to flash), Athom (worst ones I've had for reliability and customer service) and settled on mylocalbytes, only had one fail - I have 14. None switch high loads, just monitor for power.
I managed to get a bulk load of Aurora AOne double sockets off ebay and I'm gradually replacing the need for plugs with those.

Daniel
Are you planning to open up the plug to see what actually overheated? Would be interesting to know if it was the main contacts for the appliance's plug's pins, or the relay, or something else.

If its same layout as the localbytes ones then the burnt part is right where the relay sits.

If the relay is really rated at 16A it probably wasn't the component that caught fire.

These smart switches have to measure the load current in some way. It is unlikely to be a current clamp. More likely a small resistive component. This could be a component on the board or a small piece of track on the Printed Circuit Board. This copper clad board will have a precise thickness of copper on it. Then coupled with the width of the trace and the length of track plus the resistivity of copper, a very precise resistor can be made. Measuring the voltage drop across this resistive element gives you the current (remember Ohm's Law?) then multiplying by the voltage gives you the power.

The PCB trace will consume a small amount of power and will consequently get warm. The board acts as a heatsink but as the board gets hotter with higher currents it will reach a certain temperature where it starts to delaminate. Suddenly the heat is no longer being dissipated across the board and the small trace catches fire. I wonder if this is what you can see if you open it up?

The PCB material and the thickness (weight) of the copper will determine where it fails with temperature. The material they have used will allow a continuous 10A without delamination and a short term 16A which uses the thermal inertia of the board (it takes a small time to reach its failure temperature). The manufacturers could have used a higher temperature material but haven't it seems. They instead have quoted 16A incorrectly in my opinion as this system really has a limit of 10A.

Regarding the 13A outlet and the plug fuse, they can source well above 13A for short durations. The device protecting the fixed cabling and the outlet is the breaker - likely a 30A breaker on a ring circuit or a 15A or 20A breaker on a spur. These can interrupt the current quite precisely at their rating. However the plug fuse that protects the appliance cable which would be 13A on a drier, washing machine or dishwasher will not blow at 13A, might last minutes or even hours at 16A and milliseconds at 100A (a dead short on the appliance). So the little PCB trace in the smart plug at 16A effectively becomes the component that fails with a 16A overload. It should not catch fire - but that is down to the manufacturer of the smart plug and the quality of their design. The PCB should have a UL rating which is an indication of its fire retardant capabilities. I wonder if some design compromises and specmanship have clashed here?

Windy Miller I wonder if some design compromises and specmanship have clashed here?

In a lot (hundreds of millions) of internet-of-crap smartplug devices they use the same PCB design from the same Shenzen company. Its been subject to recall in other EU/first world countries which have a functioning standards/safety enforcement agency (so not the UK) because its an accident waiting to happen. Regardless of what is stamped on the case, the chances of most of the designs using the board having CE approval is about the same as me winning all the lotteries on earth 😉

Given who owns GE and where they manufacture I wouldn't want to bet against it being a clone/same part.

I have Emporia smart plugs - 4 of them. I realised early on that they weren't suitable for my wash appliances load so I stuck with my much older Current Cost monitors which have worked fine for over 10 years on these high load appliances. I even have one on my 3kw kettle (monitor only not a switch). Actually I had over 40 Current Cost IAMs as they were called and in 10 years, 11 have failed - several in the last year so they are at end of life. Not a single one has caught fire or even smelt hot. Current Cost were a British company using China manufacturing. They got their design right and I'm quite happy with their 10 year life.

Emporia were my smart switch of choice to match my consumer board monitors which are current clamps. However I think they might also be one of those dodgy switches so they are limited to my Aircon and dehumidifiers which are all sub 1KW. Apparently they have a feature that will disconnect an overload. I'm not brave enough to try this out but I don't think it has been fully debugged as I know 3 instances of load disconnect on light load. They happened to have the computers and TV on them so pretty annoying when they disconnect (they reconnect almost immediately so this could be an overvoltage problem rather than an overcurrent) . I don't think I'll get any more.

Windy Miller Apparently they have a feature that will disconnect an overload.

Is that not called a fire? 😃

Seriously though the vast majority (80% plus, maybe more) of these plugs on fleabay/amazon/whoever are probably accidents waiting to happen, just like the OP's GE-branded plug.

Amazon in the UK was a major source of issues for other countries in the EU (pre-brexit) as the UK simply doesn't bother checking whether electrical goods have fake compliance stamps on them. Once in an Amazon warehouse (fulfilled by amazon) then the goods ended up everywhere in the EU.

I have always doubted the quality of these plugs but chose to ignore my concerns and put a 500w heater on one set to 11c. Its great for knowing how much electric its using but its in my garage not to far away from the givenergy 9.5kw battery . . . . . .

Do you think it will fail in a set amount of hours of use? If my garage catches fire with one of those batteries in there I'll probably lose my house, especially as the gas meter is in there also.

Perhaps sending one of the generic plugs and a Mylocalbytes plug to Big Clive for a tear down and analysis would be interesting and informative?

You have to admit there is some shoddy stuff out there, not just smart plugs

Iv'e seen real problems with the 13a 2 gang uk wall socket with usb, has no earth, like what the hell

Then you have the extension lead with say 4 uk plugs available, shocking cheap wire, sure fire coming your way

You have to admit there is some shoddy stuff out there, not just smart plugs

I bought a multi usb charger once from Amazon and the IEC cable came with a moulded 13A plug without a fuse holder. That went straight back

Marren2016 If my garage catches fire with one of those batteries in there I'll probably lose my house, especially as the gas meter is in there also.

The givenergy batteries do not catch fire so you’re safe in that respect

I bought a LiPo charger and the cable had a fake fuse in a holder that was not connected to anything. The wires in the cable were copper plated steel and had a resistance of about an ohm in each line. The insulation was all black so no indication of which was which. The earth pin had an insulating sleeve when it should only be the live and neutral.

I noticed a problem because one pin was bent and I straitened easily by hand. I found where it went through the insulating sleeve it was just a thick piece of wire instead of a solid brass pin with a thin plastic sleeve. That made me investigate further. It said it was rate for 10A but far less that that would heat up the steel wires.

Basically everything about it was fake.

Daniel

I assume you’re sent the above information and communications to your local trading standards ?

Possibly a copy to your local fire brigade as an FYI too.

kram Where have you been hiding? Trading standards (if they exist at all at your local authority) do NOT deal with the public, and haven't done for a decade or more.

You have to contact Citizen's Advice, and they don't have the money/expertise to look at anything related to safety. They're snowed under with people who have had their benefits sanctioned/being evicted/starving.

That's one of the reasons these devices are everywhere in the UK - we don't fund anyone to properly check/test anything.

Daniel

Hi Daniel

Have you had any reply from GE about these plugs.

The four plugs I purchase from ebay from the agent that is working with GE last year in June 2023 from the facebook site and he is still selling.

His ebay page stated that these plugs were OK to 16A max current and Max power 3680W, the flyer version 4 that I downloaded from GE site also stated the same technical information, the supplied documentation with the plugs that had the installation instruction code and the plugs also had 16A max stamped on them

I did read the supplied documentation and it was clear that it was 16 A max current rating and did not indication it was just a peak load for 1 min.

I just looked at the ebay seller site and he was informed in 24/7/23 : Through recent emails with Givenergy I have been informed that the use of the plugs are not intended for high sustained loads. An example of this is to control an EV 'granny' charger.

GE should have recalled all these plugs or ask the ebay agent to send a e-mail to people warning that a mistake was made by them.

Asking him to add a note warning to his ebay page and changing the datasheet for the plugs back in November 2023 to highlight the new current rate is not good practice.

Simon-D

I'm surprised that Givenergy haven't been more proactive. If the press were to take this up then the fact that they are labelled " GivEnergy " would cause some reputational damage to the brand.

Tenkaykev

I have sent e-mail to GE support and the e-bay seller with my concerns asking what is happing as I'm also surprised that Givenergy haven't been more proactive.

I just found that I had downloaded the datasheet released for the plugs back in March 2023 confirming that plugs were OK to 16A max and max power was 3680W.

rich_f

Those photos look like they should be sent to the Guardian or similar. That's pretty bad, especially with the lack of information (or bait'n'switch?) about the peak vs sustained load.

Looks like it was a poor contact on the live pin or perhaps not a big enough PCB copper trace connecting it. I use SonOffs because they use wires and don't rely on PCB traces and the plastic case seems to be the same plastic UK sockets are made from. I don't think that melts or burns.

Simon-D the reply said

Thank you for raising this to us we treat cases like this very seriously. I've looked into our documentation surrounding high current use and have ensured some adjustments are made to our documentation for the power rating these plugs should operate at.

We have also raised this internally and will be taking this up with our manufacturing partner.

Please ensure this should not happen and your other plugs should be completely fine, please ensure going forwards you operate a plug within the specs below.

16A - 1 min
13A - 5 min
10A - Continuous

I will in this case get you a replacement sent out, and will also send another out as a gesture of goodwill.

I've not received these replacements yet. Not that I need them. I won't be using on the drier again!

Daniel I'd just tell them you don't want their dangerous junk and get them to refund you.

The suggestion about the Guardian is a decent one, send them some pics - looking that bad they might publish.

I don't understand the need to contact trading standards, media, fire brigade, make a big negative fuss, etc. Luckily my house didn't burn down. No one was hurt. They know they fucked up. This is their forum as well. We could just work with them. I don't want problems for a company I spent fucktonnes of money on their kit (not the plugs) to go away - I want it to be supported beyond its lifetime - or I won't get ROI.

They fixed their specs.

What they should have done is contact users or done a recall and they should have updated the app to provide a warning that over 10A is being used sustained. So there's far too little proactive action. I'll contact their support again and point out that considering they knew this last year why are they not being proactive to avoid other customers having something much worse.

I don't own this or any other smart plugs, but do these come with temperature monitoring? If they have a sensor on-board, I imagine it would just be an app update to add an alarm, and maybe cut-off feature, via the app to help prevent this happening with all the existing plugs out there.
Of course a better solution would be to have the cut-off feature directly on the board, but that might mean a hardware change.

Daniel
I'm guessing that you are fairly new to how GivEnergy operates? From what I have seen they really don't give care that much about their customer's concerns or negative press. They know that it's a sellers market and that they can sell pretty much everything that they make.

It won't stay like this forever, but in the short-term there's plenty of easy money to be made.

Vestas

Ffs, clearly I’ve been hiding a rock, what a shambles this country is.

Re not reporting a dangerous product.

Ignoring this particular company/product, that’s fine, until a few near misses go unreported. Eventually a family die in a fire because the dangerous product is still being sold.

Zakalwe

Solar installers are starting to call in administrators in not insignificant numbers. I’d suggest the time of it being a sellers market in the UK might pass soon enough.

FYI the regs will require all electrical devices to have a thermal cut out. Far too many products on various websites that claim to meet regs but it turns out don’t

Them photos are shocking scary

Smart plug with energy monitoring ofc they are going to be used with what can be put in a plug socket like washing machine and dryers, its absolutely stupid not to design them with that in mind.

If the plug for a dryer works fine in a plug socket it should work fine for an energy monitor plug.

WTB more widespread products like iotawatt that are plug and play local control.

rich_f Or make better plugs that are designed for energy monitoring to take the same as plugs for the equipment you are using them on.

Jellybaby

You’ll never quite get the full 13A as the plug itself will draw some and the socket is rated to a 13A peak.

I’m most worried that the plug didn’t cut itself out before that damage and also it’s not made out of the self extinguishing/non flammable material required in plugs.

These smart plugs should meet the low voltage directive before being sold in the UK market. Ask GE for their test certification.

Here’s one alternative to plug based power monitoring. There are videos about of the previous generation in a UK distribution unit

https://www.emporiaenergy.com/blog/emporia-vue-3-energy-monitor-press-release/

geoffreycoan

They can, as can all LFP battery cells, it’s just a different profile of burn. I can’t remember the paper, but I have linked to it before on here.

LFP more smouldering than flames, but they can catch fire. IIRC they also released more HF, which isn’t something you want to be in a room with.

This isn’t a GE thing, it’s an any battery thing in that they can all burn under the right conditions.

PianSom Here’s one alternative to plug based power monitoring. There are videos about of the previous generation in a UK distribution unit

https://www.emporiaenergy.com/blog/emporia-vue-3-energy-monitor-press-release/

I looked at the Emporia power monitoring as they offer a box that has lots of clamps and would be great for monitoring individual circuits in the house. In the end I didn’t go with them, one of the reasons being that the box is quite big and would be difficult to fit in a UK fusebox. Most of the videos/photos of them being installed show them in US fuseboxes which are far bigger in size.

In the end I bought two Shelly EM1 power monitors, they come with two CT clamps on each so I can monitor 4 circuits. Integrate well into Home Assistant and they’ve got their own app as well.
My experience is that they over-read by about 5-7%. Two of the circuits I monitor are my FIT solar array and my ASHP, both of which have conventional meters on them so I can cross-compare. Other than creating a template sensor I haven’t found an easy way to re-calibrate the readings so just live with it as its good enough for my purposes

Replacements arrived but they are still rated at 16A. I checked all documentation that came with them. Contacted support again. And asked why they haven't contacted customers. Their reply:

We have put the request into the relevant teams to update the documentation, yours is an isolated incident and not one we've seen before to that extent, we normally just see them break with continued high usage.

Our documentation will be updated in due course, we are no longer manufacturing these and all that are already manufactured were done in China.

They normally see them just break. Wow. Just wow. So blase. It's like they don't see how important safety is.

we are no longer manufacturing these and all that are already manufactured were done in China.

So Giv Plugs are dead / retired?

Daniel

Not a totally unexpected response from GE though. See here: https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/4097-bms-over-voltage-alert/20

Daniel

I had the same reply from GE about updating the documentation and was informed of the the new limitations below.

The plugs themselves are rated up to 16A, but not for a continuous high load, so we've had to modify our documentation to make this more clearer than before.

The plugs peak up to 13A and 16A at 5 minutes and 1 minute respectively, and for a continuous load consistently, its 10A.

Customers could be using these with no knowledge of the new limitations, I only found out from your post thank you.

No one from GE seem to understand how important safety is just changing the online documentation is not addressing the issue.

As you found out that the replacement product is still labelled at 16A after changing the datasheet for the plugs back in November 2023 online to highlight the new current rating

When I purchased my plugs the March 2023 datasheet rated them at 16A with no peak time limit reported, that was one reason why I purchase them.

I assume all these GE plugs are being sold via Fleabay?

Simon-D The plugs peak up to 13A and 16A at 5 minutes and 1 minute respectively, and for a continuous load consistently, its 10A.

Which matches the rating of the 3-pin sockets they plug into. (Despite the 13A label, 13A is only for brief periods such as boiling a kettle, and sustained draw should be limited to 10A.)

DD

Yes that my understand of the reply that I had back from GE support.

DD That depends on the plug and the socket. On this new-build the sockets are all rated for continuous 13A operation. However the average plug is rated like you say, in the DIY warehouses these are the cheapest and that's what people buy. A plug with continuous 13A rating costs about a quid more.

This is why I was asking if appropriate persons had been notified as things like this have potential to be dangerous if left unaddressed.

I doubt very much that the washing machine was pulling enough to be dangerous in a 10A/13A short bust socket, or people would be destroying uk 13A plugs everywhere.

Not sure how many have seen this post on Facebook, the relay is only rated to 8A max according to a user that found a spec sheet:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/489882062425810/permalink/936668901080455/

Not my content, the link is above, but here is a screenshot.

>!!<

Is there a part number for the relay?

simont What socket do you know off that has a 13A fuse in it?
You can draw whatever the fuse limit is for your ring main in the fuse box, possibly 20A-30A

You can draw 30A per double socket (max rating for the ring) but for each plug there will be a max 13A fuse in it Even if its an extension lead, the extension lead plug will have a max 13A fuse. So for a smart plug, plugged into the socket, it will only every have a max of 13A load (I know it can be a bit higher before the fuse blows)

simont But if its rated at 16A then it should have a 16A fuse?
These sockets can only really handle 10A, my socket died after 11A @30 mins

Has anyone found a suitable Wi-Fi / or what ever unit to control a 3Kw emersion heater?

Piccyman There are plenty of WiFi-enabled devices that say they can handle 3kw as a maximum rating just like the Givenergy units but I doubt they will do any better than they do at actually running a 3kw draw for more than a few seconds reliably.

There are units like the Myenergi Eddi which can control a 3kw immersion heater very well without issue. They are of course far more expensive than the Givenergy plugs but perhaps that is a reflection on what it takes to safely control on a sustained basis, that level of power.

Piccyman Theres lots of posts on the Home Assistant forums about this and there isn't really any smart plugs/modules that can do it safely. What most people do is use a smart module to trigger a contactor that can handle the current.
For simplicity, and the fact you get temperature readout as well, I just replaced my immersion thermostat with a T-Smart one, simple replacement and works via app and Home Assistant if needed

https://www.tsmart.co.uk/smartthermostats

EDITL Just remembered there are some WIFI FCUs that say they can control an immersion

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/5034630-13a-dp-wi-fi-switched-fused-spur-white?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwltKxBhDMARIsAG8KnqU2unc144PgVUFfmBInvpfXIRX_wEVcBcshUYYhyWB1MSSOPypH8qgaArD7EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://community.givenergy.cloud/?q=immersion

https://heatmisershop.co.uk/16a-wireless-electric-heating-receiver-rf-switch-16a/

I use one of these paired with a NeoAir thermostat set as a timer. I get Wifi access through the NeoHub which I can control through Google Assistant (gives me voice control). Bit of overkill just for the immersion switch but I already had a multi-zone Heatmiser system to control the radiators throughout the house so it wasn't too much extra (found them 2nd hand on Ebay too).

I use one of these as a power controller...

https://cpc.farnell.com/kemo-electronic/m028n/module-power-control-4000va/dp/HK01157

Runs warm so I have it in a diecast box which acts as a heatsink. Been using it for 6 months now.

Piccyman Before getting an Eddi with my solar install I was using this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PYWFKDY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Worked OK for me. Only drawback was yet another App to manage.

There is a workaround that you can do. Use the smart switch to power a relay that then controls the immersion heater. This way, you can use the communication and timing capabilities of the smart switch with the high current capability of the separate relay.

I've done this with the amplifier for music in my workshop. Not because of the high current demand, but because I've got a delay on+delay off timer relay wired to it, because those particular amps can destroy themselves if the mains power is intermittent (DAMHIKT). The smart switch and amp are build into a cupboard to protect them from dust and swarf.

Windy Miller I use one of these as a power controller...

https://cpc.farnell.com/kemo-electronic/m028n/module-power-control-4000va/dp/HK01157

Runs warm so I have it in a diecast box which acts as a heatsink. Been using it for 6 months now.

I've just bought one of these to try as you can get an add on module to control the power output level with a PWM signal so could vary the amount of power to the immersion based on amount of excess solar available, like the eddi does

simont Yes I was considering that too but it's what to connect it to for a complete controller that's stumped me. Will you use a Raspberry Pi or equivalent? You will need to be able to read the current export rate so that you can divert excess power to the immersion heater same as the Battery and Eddi does. Then avoid the systems hunting/beating with each other for what may be a limited resource.

Being a hardware engineer I am quite OK with wiring things up but writing software really isn't my Forte. I have my power control being done with a knob! Three marks for 1, 2 and 3KW. Currently I have it set at 2KW so that I can use the <10p Octopus Agile slots overnight whilst also charging my battery (not many slots recently though). Be very interested in how you get on.

Windy Miller

Windy Miller Will you use a Raspberry Pi or equivalent?

I'm hoping to use an ESP32 to generate the pwm and interface that with Home Assistant using ESPHome.

I have my giv inverter integrated with Home Assistant as well as Octopus so I'll be able to get data to write some automations

I use the pwm in an ESP32 for fan control so it should work ok, might need level shifter depending on the controller requirements.

Windy Miller Be very interested in how you get on.

Received the modules and hooked it up to an incandescent lightbulb for test.
Works as expected, but the light is dimmer than it should be (tried with the supplied variable resistor and that works fine). Looking at the specs, the PWM needs to be 5V TTL and the ESP32 only outputs 3.3V so have ordered some level shifters, hopefully that will solve it

Windy Miller - looks like a very useful project and a decent size metal case to both disipate the heat and acts as a shield for the RF hash that the m028 module is likely to generate.

I'm thinking of doing something similar myself to control the power to my own immersion heater.

Just out of interest did you incorporate any extra EMC components or rely upon the metal case alone?

At the moment I can only control switching and power monitoring using a Tuya compatible breaker coupled with a 2-pole contactor, which fits snugly into a 2-way din rail box:

Having the flexibility to dial the power output would be a useful improvement as my immersion is typically drawing just over 13amps. Scalling that current back would provide a lot of flexibility.

This was recommended over on the other forum. (The link also includes a nice ELI5 description of inductive and resistive loads.)

https://toughleads.co.uk/products/hard-wired-heavy-duty-wi-fi-control-switch-230-415v-16a-32a-options?_pos=7&_sid=51bac7412&_ss=r&variant=44616920006978

Icarus The box is good for radiated emissions and that circuit for conducted emissions. I haven't included those components though. No noticeable increase in planes dropping from the sky or Teslas on autopilot crashing so I think I'm getting away with it. Just don't send the detector vans round :-)

The noise from the module could upset power line carrier equipment (like some network extenders). It doesn't seem to affect the TV signal. To be honest though I'm only using the immersion heater when the Agile pricing drops below 9p overnight as otherwise the gas is cheaper. I've not used the heater at all this week.