Compatibility App issues between Octopus Intell Flux and Givenergy App

Hello, I’m new to the site and I’m experiencing trouble with my Givenergy battery and Octopus Intelligent Flux. During installation I inadvertently signed up to Givenergy Axle briefly, but then went back to Octopus. Since the installation date of mid June the battery has only charged overnight to full capacity a handful of times. Normally the battery charges to about 20% over night and if it’s a sunny day it will get up to about 40%. Octopus and Givenergy have been informed, but still no resolution.
Times are all in synced between inverter and battery. Both have been rebooted.
Hopefully someone has the same issue (unfortunately)
Regards
BAT

BAT My understanding is that with IOF you sign control of your battery to Octopus to use as they wish. Have you any reason to suppose it's not working as Octopus intend ?

(Though I am a little surprised that it charges up to 20% - I thought 20% was the minimum reserve Octopus tended to use.)

DD, thanks for the reply.
Octopus have told me it’s not working, they are currently trying to sort it with no joy. I’ve also contacted Givenergy and the only answer I got was that the two API are disrupting each other. Octopus have turned my dashboard off and still no joy. I would just like to get to the bottom of it, as many appreciate it’s a very large investment for your home.
I have read on other forums about smart meters not liking a change of supplier and have wondered whether this is connected?
BAT

Just replied

Thank you for reaching out to us and providing detailed information about the issues you're experiencing with your GivEnergy battery and the Intelligent Octopus Flux tariff. I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you've been facing.

Compatibility and Connectivity Issues

GivEnergy Battery Compatibility:

The Intelligent Octopus Flux tariff is designed to work specifically with GivEnergy batteries. It's crucial that your GivEnergy battery is properly connected to the internet for us to optimize its charging and discharging patterns. This ensures you can take advantage of the cheaper electricity rates.
GivEnergy Axle System:

Switching between the GivEnergy Axle option and Octopus Intelligent Flux should not corrupt or overlap the instructions to your smart meter. However, it is essential to ensure that the battery is correctly set up for the Intelligent Octopus Flux tariff. If there were any misconfigurations during the initial setup, they should be rectified by resetting the inverter and battery, which you mentioned has already been done.
Smart Meter Issues:

Occasionally, smart meters may face issues when changing energy suppliers, but this is relatively rare. If your smart meter is not functioning correctly, it could affect the performance of your battery system. Please ensure that your smart meter is working properly and communicating with our system.
Steps to Resolve the Issue

Check Internet Connection:

Ensure that your GivEnergy battery is connected to the internet. This is crucial for the Intelligent Octopus Flux tariff to function correctly. You can check the internet connection via the GivEnergy dashboard.
Technical Support:

Since you have already reset the inverter and battery, and the app has been removed, I recommend continuing to work closely with our technical support team. They have the expertise to troubleshoot and provide specific guidance for your setup.
Further Assistance:

If the issue persists, please provide more details about any error messages or specific problems you're encountering. This will help our technical team diagnose and resolve the issue more effectively.
Additional Resources

GivEnergy Support: It may also be helpful to reach out to GivEnergy for additional support, especially if the issue seems to be with the battery itself.
Solarstar: Since Solarstar installed the battery, they might have additional insights or solutions to the problem.
Contact Information

Please continue to keep us updated on the progress, and don't hesitate to reach out if you need further assistance. We are committed to resolving this issue for you.

For more information on Intelligent Octopus Flux and how it works, you can visit our FAQ page: Intelligent Octopus Flux: Frequently Asked Questions | Octopus Energy

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Kind regards,

Octopus Energy Customer Support

BAT the only answer I got was that the two API are disrupting each other.

I'm not quite sure why there are two APIs involved... I'd imagine that Octopus are using the GivEnergy API to adjust the settings on your inverter. Not quite sure which is the other API.

I have read on other forums about smart meters not liking a change of supplier and have wondered whether this is connected?

I don't think the smartmeter is involved: it's just there to measure and report usage, and operates independently of everything else happening.

(I'm still not clear what the actual problem is.)

Have you definitely fully detached from Axle? Rescinded access tokens, and confirmed there are no unexecpted transactions in the activity log ?

DD thanks for the reply.
This is the issue if I haven’t made it clear

The control of the battery isn’t fit for purpose. Between Octopus intelligent flux and the Givenergy system.

Have a look at my data on your system

Givenergy told me DD that the API was the problem and I should get Octopus to turn off theirs?

As a customer who has invested 11k into the green energy game it’s a kin to changing all your doors and windows for ultra insulated ones, and not being able to close them.
The system isn’t doing what it says on the tin.

I’m beginning to think that Octopus and Givenergy have a problem which they’re not letting on to.
Tomorrow morning 08:30hr I've got the installer coming back to check the system .

I will keep grinding away until I get a resolution one way or the other.

It shouldn’t be like this.

BAT

BAT Givenergy told me DD that the API was the problem and I should get Octopus to turn off theirs?

That doesn't make any sense: the API is provided so that you, or agents on your behalf, can control your system. The question really is: what are GE doing that's interfering with this? That's why I was asking about Axle.

Perhaps post a snapshot of the activity log from the portal

DD thanks for your reply,
I wouldn’t know how to find whether I’m completely detached from Axle?
I will see if I can find what after.
BAT

Is it in the inverter settings?
BAT

BAT Octopus have turned my dashboard off

Which dashboard is that?

In your account security settings, are there any API keys? I imagine that both Octopus and Axle would need one, you can hopefully revoke the one you don't want.

BAT Is it in the inverter settings?

On the portal, there's a remote-control page, accessible via a gears icon. At the bottom of that, there's an activity log recording changes made via the API.

Not sure how to add a link using mobile, but perhaps this works: > Ortwin

Morning both thank you for your reply’s.

Kevin first, there is no API keys in account settings.

DD, I’ve followed your directions and come to the activity log. See bottom of the photo just below filters. 3 options

1/ server and user command,
2/ server command only,
3/ user command only.

Which one is correct ? currently on first opinion (server and user command)

BAT

BAT I think there may be an option to download the data, which would be easier to read. Or a screenshot from within the browser: on Firefox, right-click offers it on the menu; I assume other browsers can also do it.

I think 'server' is anything automated done by GE, and 'you' is anything you do through the UI, app or API. Octopus probably also shows up as 'you'.

DD, I’ve just had the installer out ( Solarstar uttoxeter) he’s non the wiser. I’ll see if I can screenshot it to let you have a look.

If not, as I haven’t got an EV, should I just try going back to a normal tariff?

BAT

That’s about as good as it gets. At 08:20 the installer tried to put it on eco mode and it bounced back to portal remote control.

BAT

BAT That’s about as good as it gets. At 08:20 the installer tried to put it on eco mode and it bounced back to portal remote control.

Why did the installer try to put it into eco mode? Octopus keep that turned off when you use IOF, since they expllcitly control when the battery charges and discharges - at all other times they want it to be idle.

The "API - Inverter Settings" lines are probably Octopus adjusting settings - it's a pity they don't explicitly identify themselves (which you can do through the API, as I mentioned in that other thread I linked).

BAT If not, as I haven’t got an EV, should I just try going back to a normal tariff?

Well, there's standard Flux, where you get to keep control of the battery, but don't get quite such a good export rate. There are videos on youtube comparing Flux and Intelligent Flux. If you assume that Octopus will do exactly as you would do, IOF tends to comes out slightly ahead, but I'm a bit dubious about that assumption. Depends very much how hands-on you want to be - IOF is the ultimate hands-off tariff, as long as it actually works. But probably need to accept that Octopus' goals are mostly, but not completely, aligned with yours.

Flux and IOF might be considered summer tariffs. Might be worth starting to look to see of there's a tariff that better suits your needs for the colder months.

(Incidentally, while Eon NextDrive is supposed to be an EV-only tariff, a few people on here report that they allow them onto it with just solar/battery.)

DD (Incidentally, while Eon NextDrive is supposed to be an EV-only tariff, a few people on here report that they allow them onto it with just solar/battery.)

Eon Drive is actually now explicitly available for non EV owners:

BAT The control of the battery isn’t fit for purpose. Between Octopus intelligent flux and the Givenergy system.

Sorry, I'm still not getting it. The power graph you posted looked fine, except for a weird blip around 7am when the battery appeared to charge from solar, as if eco mode had got turned on.

Have a look at my data on your system

I can only see what you post.

The system isn’t doing what it says on the tin.

Can you say exactly what it's doing or not doing that it should be

It shouldn’t be like this.

Can you describe (briefly) how you think it should be working.

DD
Not to sound ungrateful, but I’ve had enough.

Regards

DD,
Is this an unbalanced cell problem?

So if I switch back to a standard Octopus tariff and the same problem exists, I’ll be in touch.

BAT

Very similar problem to Mr Willkins.

BAT DD,
Is this an unbalanced cell problem?

I don't see anything in anything you've posted that might suggest that.

Is it an AIO you have? The power graph suggests charging at 6kW, which is higher than most of the inverters in the range.

A10 or not the batteries aren’t being charged, you should be able to see that.

BAT My reason for asking was that there's a free third-party app that can report individual cell voltages, and so can be used for diagnosing imbalance problems, but I don't think that bit works for AIO (unless it has been updated recently).

I’m changing to octopus flux and I’ll keep you up to date.
This is off the side of the battery.

I notice that like mine, your battery type also states Li-ion not LiFePO4 and yet elsewhere on the web they do say all Givenergy batteries are Lithium Iron Phosphate.

Since LiFePO4 are supposed to be safer and other battery manufacturers tend to splash on the front casing and make a big thing about LiFePO4 I'm surprised Givenergy list it as just lithium and also the home assistant entity returns an id as just lithium which is presumably in the firmware?

I must admit when I got my battery 8 months ago it did make me wonder if it was the right one.

https://uk.eco-worthy.com/blogs/lithium-battery/lithium-battery-comparison

Robgy I notice that like mine, your battery type also states Li-ion not LiFePO4 and yet elsewhere on the web they do say all Givenergy batteries are Lithium Iron Phosphate.

Li-ion comes in various flavours, one of which is LFP (where the FePO4 is presuambly the "ion").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery

The lithium iron phosphate battery (LiFePO4 battery) or LFP battery (lithium ferrophosphate) is a type of lithium-ion battery using lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) as the cathode material

They are definetly all LFP prismatic cells (3.2V as opposed to 3.7V for other chemistries)
GivTCP reporting "lithium" is just a translation from the register being set to 0 or 1. (0 being Lead Acid as you can run those if you want)

hoggy is that the inside of an actual GE 9.5 kWh battery?
the leds look to be in about the same place as mine.

Robgy that's an old 8.2 pack.
This is the 9.5, 4 modules in those:

Anyway, derailed this thread enough.

DD Li-ion comes in various flavours

yes, thank you I understand the 3 flavours now but I didn't fully appreciate the difference when I bought the GE battery, all I knew was that LiFePO4 or Lithium Iron Phosphate was not as energy dense but is safer than Lithium, it mentions in the wikipedia page "The specific energy of LFP batteries is lower than that of other common lithium-ion battery"

My point was that GE don't label the batteries as the safer LFP type so they appear from the label on the box and battery to be the common type of lithium-ion battery.

.... just my observation as a non technical general public customer.

BAT I had a fair bit of trouble re-onboarding to IOF after leaving it last year. It did require intervention from Octopus to sort.
There are 2 ways to control these inverters via API, one is via the API keys (manage API tokens) but both Axle and IOF use another route via ouath - which fall under "connected services" instead. I'd try deleting both competing services there if not already and then also disconnecting devices in Octopus app then trying to onboard again to see of flushing everything and starting from a near blank slate helps.

Any changes Octopus makes controlling your inverter show in the remote control logs as just done by "API - Inverter Settings" which is a bit confusing as it's not specifically identified its Octopus.

hoggy Great to see the inside of a 9.5 thank you.

Robgy yours would hopefully be less bent. That one got dropped!

20% this morning

Robgy
Robgy,
Thanks for your insight. I’m not a technically minded person. I’m methodical and practically minded which helped me in my previous career as a senior fire investigator for a fire and rescue service in the midlands area. So I’m well accustomed to things not quite being what they first appear to be.
I am now starting the investigation process with my battery ( Givenergy A10). Which like everyone else buys in good faith from a trusted supplier.

If the information plate sold with an attachment to the side of the battery is incorrect then it is one of two dilemmas.

1/ Incorrect information by human error
2/ fraudulent information with the intent to deceive.

In time we shall see which one it is?

BAT

BAT 20% this morning

Seems to me that there's one of two possibilies:

• Octopus asked it to charge more than 20%, but the battery failed to do so

• Octopus asked it to charge to 20% and it did so

  It should be possible to infer from recent activity logs which it was (based on charging times and limit that was configured).

hoggy
hoggy, thank you for your opinion.

Unfortunately I’m not a technically gifted person like yourself. I’m methodical and practical.

As for delving into computer systems, that’s not my bag. I have brought in good faith a battery from Solarstar Uttoxeter via Givenergy which is sold as fully compatible with Octopus. Indeed one of the only ones octopus will accept, and factually this sales statement is incorrect.

The more I read from advice given on this forum, the bigger I think the problem is.

It now appears that my battery has misleading information attached to it on its information plate.
I’m not sure if your response Robgy on this forum is factually correct or convenient.
As you can appreciate with this kind of discussion forum you don’t know who you’re talking to or what knowledge, understanding, technical expertise they hold. Indeed anyone can say anything without backing it up.

Regarding my battery information, if you can direct me to the source of your knowledge it would be appreciated. What regs are you looking at?

I would also like to confirm what type of battery is actually sat I my garage? I would also like Givenergy to run some diagnostics on the battery to confirm the cells are working correctly, ie balanced.

BAT

Mine stayed at 20% overnight too.

I suspect mine will charge later this morning.

BAT I think from how I understand it now that we can be confident the battery is the safer lithium ion phosphate because of the voltage which is different to other types of lithium battery.
I was thinking of it more from a sales point of view or customer confidence, in so much as a lithium ion phosphate battery is known to be safer because other battery manufacturers appear to stress the actual chemistry more, so just changing / adjusting the label would instill or reinforce that feeling of safety for the "general public" customers.
Having said that I have gone a little bit OTT with fireproofing the room in which the equipment is located along with an old automatic halon fire extinguisher which I've had for many years.
And yes I know only airplanes are supposed to have them now but it was expensive and I'm not throwing it away 🤪. Hopefully it will never be used.

Robgy
Noted,
Just a warning on your old Halon, probably (BCF Bromochlorodifluoromethane extinguisher) they’re an extremely effective firefighting medium (4% in atmosphere). They’re also a very reliable asphyxiant, as I’m sure you’re aware.

BAT

TX200

TX200
Thank you for your response.

Has yours charged over night?
What charge did you have yesterday, mine got to 40% during the day and discharge to 18%.
It didn’t charge over night and is currently charging at 0.1 kv.
What’s yours doing and how long have you had your system?

DD
That doesn’t really help DD

BAT yes thanks fully aware of how effective yet dangerous they could be.

Robgy They're also illegal to fit in domestic premises.

BAT actually, I'd say it's the crucial first step in distinguishing whether it's a problem with octopus/API or a problem your battery.

I have asked OE to add a signature on the end of the API - inverter settings tag to show it was them that made the change. Might be worth other requesting it as well to force the change? So far they have not taken it onboard. My charge level is quit random, most of the time it goes to 95% but this morning at 08:00 it was 35%. at 10:00 it started charging up again.

BAT the register part I was on about is a setting inside the inverter you can view with a program called GivTCP. I wouldn't worry too much about it being set wrong as the whole system would cease to work at all.
Battery chemistry for the AIO can be found in the MSDS - https://givenergy.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/AIO-SDS-for-CEC-listing-Jan-24.pdf

(Sorry for brevity, I'm out at the moment)

Ortwin
Noted,
I can but dream of my new battery being at 90 odd%.
No charge overnight ( which is my normal) and charges at 0.1 kv or idles through the day.
Currently at 22%.

Vestas
Noted

Vestas
Unfortunately people have lots of things that shouldn’t be in domestic properties.

Vestas The extinguisher is in my office now part plant room which is a separate building not in the house, is that commercial or domestic from a fire point of view?

BAT At 09:30:20 we see the upper charging limit being set to 32, with the previous value being 20. So while we can't see the value of 20 being set, it's plausible that this was a deliberate setting by Octopus. So that's consistent with the battery behaving itself, and the issue being witht the values Octopus are choosing to set. Similarly we can see it was previously set to charge from 8pm to 8:30pm. Then it was set to charge from 9am to 9:30 - - is that what you saw ?

I think you have it set to show raw values - this makes the charging power harder to interpret. I'm not sure how it works for AIO, but on my hybrid the raw value is expressed as a % of capacity. So for my 9.5kW battery, a raw value of 10 corresponds to 950W. If it's same for AIO, then a raw value of 5 would be around 680W ? But now it's been set to 28% = 3.78kW ?

A few timeouts / comms errors / inverter offline. If that happens a lot, it would certainly make it a bit harder for Octopus to configure the inverter as they want.

DD
DD thanks for the response.

What causes timeout/ comma error/ inverter offline?

Tomorrow I’ll post what it’s done overnight.

BAT

Robgy Do you pay business rates on it? If not its domestic.

BAT Indeed but you don't get jailed for manslaughter for most of them - this has happened.

Vestas
Correct

BAT What causes timeout/ comma error/ inverter offline?

Basically, poor (or no) communication between the GivEnergy server and your Inverter. And with that many errors, it's not surprising that things aren't working well.

I think it's safe to assume that the problem lies between wherever the internet comes into your house, and the inverter. (As otherwise, everything you tried doing with internet would be flaky, or the comms to the inverter would NEVER work).

Are you using WiFi to the inverter, or a wired LAN connection? If WiFi, I'd suspect that the signal isn't strong enough. Where in the house is the inverter, and how far is it from the nearest wifi access point/router?

rip,
Thanks for your response.

I don’t buy what you’re saying. The Wi-Fi is in the room next door. Wi-Fi connection through the property is sound even up into the loft. So without knowing the set here you’re making the assumption it’s the customers / end user problem . Easy done.

BAT

BAT remember this is a forum full of end users.

You could have just said "no the WiFi is in the same room" rather than what you did say.

We aren't mind readers so we ask questions.

TX200
Thanks for your response,

No offence intended but appreciate people use language differently.

BAT

BAT No offence intended

... and none taken!

But I'll still stick with my initial analysis: If the portal is getting comms errors communicating with the inverter (which we see in the log screenshot), then the problem is 99% likely to be something in your house. If not your wifi, then a loose connection between dongle and inverter, or even a faulty dongle or inverter.

If the portal can't reliably communicate correctly with the inverter, then all bets are off.

FYI, it's possible to connect to the inverter with a browser and see the measured WiFi signal strength it's getting. Wifi really doesn't like foil-backed plasterboard or two-foot stone walls (of which we have both...!)

https://www.in2gr8tedsolutions.co.uk/user-manuals/wifi-reconnect/givenergy-wifi-connection-manual.pdf

rjp
Thanks for you response,

I thought your mate took offence on your behalf.

Yes I know all of the above, thank you.

BAT