Just a reminder for those of you who've forgotten/never knew that fuel duty used to go up every budget - fill your tanks before Wednesday as it looks like a 5-10p/litre increase is on the cards. Cheapest fuel station round here is heaving already (5-6 cars deep at each pump).
I told my daughter and she didn't have a clue what I was on about - she was 13 the last time Labour put fuel duty up (she's now 28). None of her friends had ever heard of it either š
I bet a lot of people that voted labour are now regretting it.
I am not trying to be political. Just and observation
SteveCook "new" Labour screwed it all up with their "fuel duty escalator" during the 00's (ostensibly for environmental reasons but nobody believed that at the time) which turned the whole subject politically toxic. Had they not done so govts since then would have had around Ā£150bn extra in tax as they'd have been able to increase duty.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions š
Unless you fill your car once a year, can't see it making much difference filling it up ahead of the budget. š¤£
TX200 Empty to full on an average car will (I suspect) be about Ā£5 more expensive on Thursday morning.
People obsess about far less money than that on these forums š
TX200 actually I do have a friend who does only fill his car once a year, needless to say he hardly ever uses it, even he isn't quite sure why he keeps it!! š¤£
Robgy
Big fuel tank I guess.
Apparently McLaren F1 had a 24 gallon tank. That is pretty much biggest fuel tank in UK.
If your friend can afford an F1, then a few quid on fuel is probably not a problem.
My Triumph 1300 had an 11.8 gal tank. My Toyota, 60 years later, just 6 gal before the reserve. At 10p/ltr increase I would pay Ā£2.80 more assuming my tank was empty, it isn't.
I could get in about 10 ltr but spend much more going to fill up.
I'm assuming 10p/litre increase mainly because it can be spun as "only" 5p/litre "real" increase - the other 5p/litre being the "cut" Sunak made a couple of years back.
Also worth noting that Starmer has announced that he's increased the maximum single bus fare outside London by 50% - goes to Ā£3 as of 1 Jan for a year then who knows after 2025. Edit - stays at Ā£1.75 max in London though. What a surprise...
So pay more for the buses or pay more for the car. Train isn't an option for most people outside London.
These sort of increases are massively regressive and hit the people least able to afford them but I'm entirely unsurprised.
Anyway we're probably far enough OT now š
Worked out what my car has cost in fuel in just under 3 years and just over 27k miles. 4.5p a mile including home charging and trips away (Italian lakes this year). Hasnāt caught fire, collapsed any car parksā¦..
Vestas Also worth noting that Starmer has announced that he's increased the maximum single bus fare outside London by 50% - goes to Ā£3 as of 1 Jan for a year then who knows after 2025
As you say this is off topic, but just to correct what youāve written, the previous government had only funded the Ā£2 bus fare cap to the end of 2024, so capping the fare in 2025 is actually an improvement on the uncapped fares we would have automatically reverted to at the end of December.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0l99xz719o
Iām not particularly pro one party or the other, but blaming the previous government for the state of public finances and increasing taxes to pay to āfix the messā is pretty standard government action that successive governments frequently follow regardless of their politics. It gives the opposition something to moan about and the press something to write about. Iām pointedly not reading any news articles speculating what the tax changes will be because itās just that, speculation, and weāll find out soon enough what they are going to be.
A 5p or 10p fuel increase isnāt great, but fuel has come down considerably from what it was a year ago.
And anyway, shouldnāt we all be driving EVās powered off our free solar electricity? š
geoffreycoan Yes but this is just beyond stupid - in financial and environmental terms.
Where I live....
One (effective) operator - Arriva. Used to be tap on, tap off. Now its flat-rate because that's what "the govt says" (actual customer service quote) which means that it will cost Ā£3 to go half a mile? Local councillor got them to keep the loop round the sheltered housing to doctors but even so. 15k town, 5 miles from a city so hardly that rural.
Alternatively fire up the car and to hell with the environment. You're paying road tax, insurance etc.....
There's really no joined up thinking here is there?
Wait for the trial road pricing which they're going to roll out on EV's (needs doing regardless of govt) and the outrage which follows......
Well OT.
geoffreycoan Iām not particularly pro one party or the other
Nor am I although I'm of the age to wonder how many of the current Govt front bench would have been viewed in the context of Thatcher's first govt. Probably a bit to the right for most - Streeting certainly to the right of anyone back then, Raynor a bit of a "wet", Reeves a Howe?
Meet the new boss...etc.
geoffreycoan Iām pointedly not reading any news articles speculating what the tax changes will be because itās just that, speculation,
Quite. Also, there is nothing we can do.
Vestas Alternatively fire up the car and to hell with the environment. You're paying road tax, insurance etc....
I was brought up in a town. We had two separate routes to the town centre. We could use any of 6 bus routes that each ran to the centre and each on a 10 minute schedule.
Now, living 7 miles from town we have a regular bus service that can take up to an hour. I might have to spend a significant time in town before any appointment. Should I use the bus i am load limited in what I can carry.
In mitigation of a Ā£6 bus fare, my one local shop can cost significantly less.
To keep pushing my renewable credentials I took all the bits from a scrap Alfa 164 (engine, gearbox, ECU, steering column etc) and built a replica of a Lancia Stratos. It weighs less than a tonne, does about 30mpg and I avoided digging millions of tonnes of soil to make a battery and/or a Chelsea Tractor. It is road legal and there are no fancy electronics that can control or track me.
geoffreycoan And anyway, shouldnāt we all be driving EVās powered off our free solar electricity?
Except it isn't free just a return on our investment.
SJB I'm wondering about the investment side seeing how fast my battery is degrading!
We had A DVLA/Gov letter the other day about our EV & softening us up for future EV vehicle duty. It didn't say exactly how or what this would be, just that it was coming.
That will be another reason for a lot of people not to switch to an EV until the details are released & costs are known.
We had one as well Ā£190 from April 2025 for us.
2022 Model Y. Luckily we got it in end of February so might manage to dodge the first year.
They have really messed up the incentives to switch; pushing back the āno more petrol and diesel carsā date by 5 years, removing the London congestion charge reduction. Removing the parking fees reductions. All too early.
Pete UK Oh there's more coming. The trial for road pricing per mile will (allegedly) be carried out on all EVs as they don't pay fuel duty. You'll get a bill every MoT for miles driven.....
CGoode We had A DVLA/Gov letter the other day about our EV & softening us up for future EV vehicle duty. It didn't say exactly how or what this would be,
I think it has been publicised - I think it was announced over a year ago. It starts April '25. You can avoid it for a year - in March, just go online and pay for a year. It will warn that you don't owe anything, and if you insist it will say you are paying twice, but it will let you do it. I did this last March to ensure it would be due again this coming March.
Vestas You'll get a bill every MoT for miles driven.....
Not so much a trial, then...
DD It'll all go tits up anyway as Crapita are being lined up to run the billing.
Edit - and the "trial" will be expanded to ICE vehicles once they work out how much to charge/mile in order to cover existing revenues from fuel duty. This IS coming as the govt gets Ā£25bn/year from ICE fuel duties and bugger all from EVs.
Vestas How much does it cost to run a horse then
Vestas This IS coming as the govt gets Ā£25bn/year from ICE fuel duties and bugger all from EVs
Sure, but I'd been hoping they'd base it on time of use - could be cheaper to drive when the roads are quiet than during peak hours
(Public charging does raise 20% vat, though.)
Vestas Do Tesla clocks go backwards when in reverse? Asking for a friend Ferris Bueller...
So where are all the chargers going to go for people who dont have a driveway?
When is all the upgraded electrical infrastructure going to be completed for those people than dont have PVs.
Where is all the generation coming from as Hinkley Point is running a few years late.
Just completed the design and build of 300 apartments in Leeds with basement parking for circa 100 cars.
A single 1000 kVA transformer serves all apartments with electric heating. PVs on roof deal with all common area lighting.
To add 7kW chargers for each parking space would need another Northern Power Grid transformer and a big cost to the local network. That is almost doubling the power supply to the site just to have chargers for one third of the residents.
I cant see it working
DD (Public charging does raise 20% vat, though.)
There's VAT on fuel (and the duty) so that's not a factor.
CW How much does it cost to run a horse then
With vets bills a lot more than a car š
hoggy Do Tesla clocks go backwards when in reverse? Asking for a friend Ferris Bueller...
Clocking will definitely be making a comeback, that's for sure š
Vestas There's VAT on fuel (and the duty) so that's not a factor.
fuel duty is around 60p/litre ? Fuel is what, Ā£1.50/litre, of which VAT is around 25p ? So total of 85p/litre.tax.
1 litre petrol is 9.5kWh, so call that 9p/kWh tax.
Rapid charging is what, 70p/kWh, of which 12p is vat ?
Of course petrol is inefficient, and you can go what, 10 miles per litre ? So call it 9p/mile tax. Whereas EV can go 3 or 4 miles per kWh, so that's down to 4p/mile.
DD
I only do 4000-5000 miles per year.
So my saving if I went EV might be 5000 x 5p = Ā£250.
But I would have to sell my Petrol car, buy and EV, buy a charger.
Not going there yet!
Home charging rate about 2p a mile
SteveCook I only do 4000-5000 miles per year.
So my saving if I went EV might be 5000 x 5p = Ā£250.
I probably only do about the same. But my petrol car was on its last legs, so a change was necessary. EV was just a punt. But it's so much nicer to drive...
I just used 3-pin socket charging for over a year - only finally went for the chargepoint after solar/battery so I could get onto IOG.
SimonClarke
Thanks. My savings might then be Ā£500/year on fuel. Ā£305 road tax (dont know how much EV road tax is)
The economics still dont stack for me when selling my ICE and having to buy an EV.
Have you seen the depreciation on EVs!
SteveCook Have you seen the depreciation on EVs!
Yeah, that is a bit of a shocker. But makes it a perfect time to buy a used one. (I bought just as we were coming out of the lockdowns, and the used prices were actually on bit of a peak at the time, due to shortages, etc.)
I can work on, fix and service my ICE. I would not want to go anywhere an EV
EVs will also pay tax soon and "expensive" EVs will pay quite a lot!
Economics of EV dont work for me.
DD Rapid charging is what, 70p/kWh, of which 12p is vat ?
...and what of home charging (currently the majority of EV owners do this) at 5% VAT on 7.5p/kWh or whatever?
You'll be paying a lot more than 4p/mile.
Try 10p/mile as a starting point, that'll raise Ā£1000 per EV doing 10k miles which will just about cover the loss of revenue from fuel duty. Admittedly it doesn't cover the additional cost to councils from increased road degredation due to heavier vehicles (EVs) but I'm fairly certain they'll bump parking charges up based on weight (like other places in Europe).
Make the most of your savings while you can because it simply can't stay the way it is now.
Vestas you are forgetting the one thing that would hit the users of this forum the most is the VED tax on electric car and the Luxury tax on EV cars more than 40K !! IMO, the slab of 40K needs revising as what we could get for 40K in 2017 is now at least 60K and on top of it, to tax retrospectively is cheating !
SteveCook talk was of Ā£195. I do about 10k miles a year so the saving is higher for fuel. Road tax was useful but it was bound to go. We would have spent 30k on an ICE replacement for 335dgt so āonly ā an extra 20k! for a Model3 LR. Depreciation affects all cars especially expensive ones. Savings on servicing are substantial. Total savings something like Ā£1500 a year. Not really economic but neither is solar/battery or the new heat pump but at least I can look my grandchildren in the eye.
SteveCook Nothing to fix - touches wood!
All this talk is about money and 'what's in it for me'. I'd expect better on a 'green tech' forum. The real reasons to go EV are: Overall saving in energy and consequent CO2 (once an EV has covered 12,000 miles or so -- can't remember the sources but it's been widely researched); zero tailpipe emissions so the air you and your children and grandchildren breathe isn't loaded with toxic chemicals.
Talk of everyone needing a charge every night are also a bit silly. We run 2 EVs and in total only charge once or twice a week! An overnight charge, say 40kWh, gives me typically 160 miles. Okay, I'm retired and not doing high mileages, but the point is that your typical EV driver will probably only charge twice as often as they fill up with petrol. And if they're fortunate, it'll be on their own driveway, overnight. Charging provision for those without driveways (or accessible on-street parking) is an issue, there are many solutions being worked on.
More on topic: A responsible pricing system for energy would at least attempt to base it on the CO2 emitted per kWh or whatever...
SimonP you are clearly of the green persuasion (no criticism) but I think there may be many more on this forum where money reduction is more of a priority.
An EV has attractions and for those who have bought EV they would probably not revert to ICE. It's a bit like getting an automatic or a car with AC.
Some will make irrational decisions such as fitting PV, a battery, and ASHP when there is no potential for life time amortisation.
In my case I look at the fuel cost saving as offsetting the lost interest on my capital expenditure. There is a hope, only a hope, that some of the expenditure will be reflected on sale of the home and have a positive benefit on saleability.
SimonP Maybe you have unlimited money, some (most) of us don't and have other existing priorities/commitments.
Fuel duty frozen.
I didn't comment on this post as I wasn't sure where the information had come from.
Vestas Buy an EV, save money! Really.
SimonP Probably.
However, you must balance your needs with your budget.
I drive 12 000 per year. I make several journeys over 180 miles at a time. One is 280 - 140 to Harwich, 140 to Germany. Both legs are less than 3 hours but the last thing I want to do is charging my EV at Harwich or Hook mid journey. Another is an 80 miles journey to the MiL. She does not have a charging facility and she would certainly not appreciating us spending part of our visit sitting in a Tesco car park.
It is clear that an affordable EV is unsuitable for our needs.
In contrast, our hybrid was able to do that EU journey, refuel to fill near Harwich before catching the ferry and again on return.
Roy124 I do accept that EVs are not always appropriate to a persons needs, (300 mile real world EVs are available but those do get rather pricey!). If I was doing long trips regularly I would probably keep a diesel car. But I think that's an uncommon usage case. (But suppose you could charge your car on the ferry?) I don't know how long you stay at Mil's, but you could granny charge... But really, rapid charging is now so readily available with a tiny bit of planning that it's not an issue -- 15 minute break on a 150 mile journey is actually rather pleasant (but maybe that's my age!).
And regarding (upfront) cost -- I think it's a fair assumption that anyone on here who can afford to invest in GE technology has some discretionary spend available to them.
Anyway, I'm regretting sticking my head over this particular parapet (again) so will go away. It's all a bit moot now anyway, since fuel duty isn't going up!
@SimonP to a point I agree. Rather than diesel (which is least green) a hybrid works very well with 400 mile range on 6 gallons. Charging at the ferry terminal end, where there are no faculties for any fuel at either end is a problem. If there were facilities, how many charging points would be reasonable given a 100 plus cars potentially all EV. A similar issue applies on the approach. From bitter experience* know that joining the ferry queue as soon as you reach the port area is essential.
By Granny charge I presume that would need to use her electricity. We would be there long enough but it would require a cable out of her bedroom window - No!
*We refuelled the car on the M3 approaching Southampton and I picked up a metal shard. We arrived at Portsmouth with a flat tyre and bare minutes to do a wheel change and check in.
Hook I'm glad I didn't rush out to fill up. š¤£
TX200 and from today's paper:
'PETROL and food prices will fall over the next two years amid a slump in the price of oil, a report by the World Bank has said, offering hope to consumers bracing for tax rises in the Budget.'
Vestas cost to councils from increased road degredation due to heavier vehicles (EVs)
This is untrue and completely discredited. Many ICE vehicles are heavier than most EVs. Heavy trucks are responsible for nearly all road wear.
SimonP
When we moved house in 2019 we fitted PVs/battery in 2020 (at circa Ā£15k) cost, we dug up our lawn to plant wildflowers, got a hive and bees - all for the environment, not to save/make money - admittedly Putin invaded Ukraine not long after and so bills did not rise as fast as could have.
I do dislike waste though, and cannot see the logic of getting rid of a perfectly good ICE that only does about 4k miles/annum and buying an EV that has lots of rare earth metals in it and will probably be built in the far east and not do anything for UK economy
@SteveCook in much the same way I will look to repair something if I can. Our suitcase had a broken handle; I have tried all the usual suspects but cannot get one of the same design (the fastenings). Same with electronics; if it is bust I cannot make it any worse by attempting a repair. Many years ago I had a suitcase handle break; I went to the local suitcase shop where they fitted a new handle.
It might not be financially worth getting rid of a reasonably new ICE car for an EV if you do low mileage (unless you buy one second hand - and there are plenty of bargains out there!). But when the time comes to change, It makes sense to get an EV. Itās much cheaper, greener and the carbon payback is a lot faster than imagined (or as erroneously stated by/ sponsored by articles by the oil industry.) The āFully Electricā You tube channel has a good video about the ingrained misconceptions of this. Canāt remember exactly but the CO2 payback time is like 18 months or something compared to driving an ICE car. Plus your old ICE car goes to someone else, who would be buying one elsewhere anyway.
There are plenty made in the UK, mini, etc etc. check out this listā¦.
Roy124 Some will make irrational decisions such as fitting PV, a battery, and ASHP when there is no potential for life time amortisation.
Why irrational - you cannot possibly compute the payback period as it is based on future (unknown) figures. The best you can do is hazzard a guess as what possible energy charge rates will be (likely higher over time) and no idea what the correct discount rate should be used, as that, again, is a guess.
Some people may just choose to do it so that, regardless of future interst rates/energy charges, they have insulated themselves as much as possible
CW it is irrational for someone who is unlikely to survive as long as the system.
Roy124 Well that is also a future unknowable. No one knows what future energy prices/interest rate/etc. will be, so it is all a guess... including longevity. If you have invested in solar/battery then you are insulating yourself from future shocks
SimonP you do know that all EVās are currently charged at night, using majority fossil fuels right? So we might not be pumping it out the back of the car when we drive, but weāre still pumping it into the air overnight.
I got my EV because during Covid the trade in price for my old one series was crazy during the shortage, and the money I have saved having the Tesla, getting the EV tariff and batteries. Iāve invested capital, but my monthly spend has reduced significantly and itās all on track to pay for itself nicely.
CW exactly this. Energy prices went up in October but the 7p IOG rate stayed the same, and my AIOās mean I never import outside the cheap rate so was unaffected.
JasonF octopus usually says that they have too much wind power on their greener days charging which we try to use
JasonF, the proportion of fossil fuels used for grid generation tends to be lower at night actually due to the lower total demand of around 20 GW rather than the 30 plus GW during the day. The base load nuclear gen of around 4GW makes up a larger proportion of the 20 GW combined with whatever wind gen is available makes for lower gCO2/kWh at night. Octopus Energy provide a useful 24 hour look ahead of expected green times of day for consumer use such as EV charging. Not good today due to little wind or sun.
SteveCook and buying an EV that has lots of rare earth metals in it and will probably be built in the far east and not do anything for UK economy
Whereas your (burn once) oil and gas comes from where? What rare earth metals are you describing? Rare earths are not rare and they are not used in batteries. Lithium is abundant. Cobalt is being reduced and phased out and is recyclable. At least 95% of batteries are recycled.
Locally generated electricity used by EVs is reducing the money we send abroad on oil.
thevilla
I apologize for my ignorance, but I still wait to be convinced.
SteveCook oh I am convinced. You are a total sceptic and I agree with you. Follow the money. The Green Industry is huge, so huge that the Petrol Chemical industries joined in, though some are now switching back to core.
With no deep research, I think Green was founded on depletion of fossil fuels. UK coal industry was an early sign and subsequent casualty. The switch from or reduction of fossil fuel came at a cost. However Green saw certain advantages and politicians also saw opportunities.
Change is of course inevitable, candle makers gave way to mantle makers who in turn gave way to filament makers, to halogen, to LED.
Driving change for change sake, and Governments skewing the playing field with taxes, duties, tariffs, subsidies etc are all to do with Money.
If a petrol hybrid car can get double the range using energy recovery systems to match a diesel car range, what would a diesel hybrid achieve?
Of course a diesel hybrid cannot work along side Green policies.
If we stripped out all the taxes and incentives, where would EV sit?
Roy124
Thanks. I am not a total sceptic, though I am sceptical about new things, especially when HMGov push them
I was consulting building services engineer for 40 years and ran a practice of over 1000 staff across the globe.
We pushed sustainability 40 years ago when it was just "good design" to avoid wasting energy and not a buzz word.
LED lighting totally agree. Every lamp in our house is LED though I still wait to see the promised 15,000 hour life.
I think EV cars must/will be the future, but only when everything else is in place (charging infrastructure, sensible insurance, battery recycle/re-use, V2H, green electric production, garages that know what they are doing etc).
Until then I will do limited/low mileage in my ICE and look after/maintain it myself and keep reading the science
Also maybe keep watching the weather, Spain at the moment is probably a good exampleā¦.
SimonClarke I would agree that there were floods in Spain but how did that occur? Was it exceptional rainfall or heavy rain with its effects amplified by deforestation, increased urbanisation, failure to maintain the river? In UK, canalisation upstream has caused flooding down stream.
I kept precise records over 10 years in my last job. I used a model that was insensitive to exceptional events. Over the 10 years the annual rainfall differed by less than 5 mm around 566mm per year. Temperature on the other hand shows a consistent increase of 0.01Ā°-0.015 CĀ° per year. At the same time I had historical evidence of sea level reduction over 500 years in recent times and 1000 years before that. Recent evidence showed sea retreat with land reclamation at 200m per year for that last 70 years. Then in the last 10 years the marsh extended seawards by at least 10m per year.
I concede this is just one data set of thousands.
Roy124 I think that if you live on various parts of the east coast you will find that the sea is definitely not retreating!
If you put the exceptional events back in what result would that give? Surely if there is an increase in the exceptional events that is relevant?
SimonClarke the exceptional results are included though I have no note of either their range or frequency, If the range and frequency were both significantly greater then the other events were equally contrary in order to produce such a smooth graphing. As you correctly deduce, this was on the East Coast, the Wash in particular. The explanations were post-glacial bounce and primaeval slit from deep in the North Sea.
Roy124 No - it's the shear weight of Yorshire tilting the island ...
Slartibartfast no, it's the other way round, all the Scots emigrating South and the hot air from North of 'Umber
SteveCook I think EV cars must/will be the future, but only when everything else is in place
A bit chicken/egg. Some think hydrogen is the future, and there was a trial. But no-one will buy a car until there's sufficient refueling stations, and no-one wants to roll out refueling stations until there are cars around. So that has all failed.
EV had the option of home-charging to get it bootstrapped. (Just 3-pin charging initially.) And of course Tesla realised the issue and went big on public charging even before there were lots of cars around.
DD Tesla realised the issue and went big on public charging even before there were lots of cars around.
So rather than the Hydrogen chicken and egg you cite, the Tesla approach might be necessary.
The Toyota solution was perfect. By getting Berlin police cars to use Hydrogen power they reduced pollution, addressed the refuelling issue, and by definition confined usage to one city.
Without a large network of fuelling stations they converted range demand and an endurance one.
A wider consumer parallel would be small EV with 100 miles range. These cars will rarely venture far from home. Market small Hydrogen cars to replace low capacity EV.
The issue now becomes one of economics. One is the higher car cost against low home fuel costs against HV cost (+Ā£ for early adopters) and higher fuel costs.
A car company, it is BMW or Toyota at the moment, can see where an HV hub might be successful and start from there.
And where did the hydrogen come from?
thevilla
Look what happened with Diesel.
Look what has happened with EV road tax. No emissions = no tax, but now HMGov changed the rules for 2025.
Enough infrastructure for current number of EVs, but what happens if everyone gets one?
Yes I have kids and grandkids. Go to visit on train - when they work TransPennine!
Our house is 1907 but have managed to get it to EPC B with lots of work/insulation/underfloor heat etc and then added battery and 27 PV panels.
SteveCook I still wait to see the promised 15,000 hour life.
You never will if its LED bulbs you're using. The ultra cheap "power supply" (20:1 transformer and a bridge rectifier to provide 12Vdc is about it) will fail LONG before the LEDs do, although in areas where the grid voltage is up around 250V it's probably 50:50 on what fails first.
You're only ever going to see the benefit of LED lifespan if the PSU is external to the light fitting or the light fitting is sufficiently large to accommodate a reasonable PSU. Neither are cheap when compared to LED bulbs.
Edit - also some LED bulb brands (DIY "barn" ones) are prone to overheating on the higher wattage bulbs. That will kill the LEDs.
Vestas
I agree, it is just the whole LED "trip" of more expensive lamps was sold on saving energy (saving the planet) and much longer life than GLS lamps. I have just checked the boxes again and they all state 15,000hrs
SteveCook ...and they are quite correct.
The average LED lifespan will be in the region of 15-25k hours. Under test conditions of course, which will probably be the LED circuit board powered from an external PSU with the LEDs facing upwards at an ambient of 25C. Ditto if you want to get those figures for the bulb except you'd use a controlled AC power supply.
They're not real-world figures where for most people the bulb points down and the heat often has nowhere to escape to. That sort of operation needs a heatsink which bulbs don't have much room for (some branded bulbs use an external heatsink)....
I never liked the lights sold with integrated LEDs, probably for stupid historical reasons from using bulbs about throwing the whole thing away if it fails but they do last a lot longer - assuming they're not ultra-cheap crap.
Of particular note are LED "tube" fittings - not the retrofit ones where you replace the tube, the ones where you replace the entire fitting. These last for years (never had one fail) and the reason is that they run cool and have enough space for a reasonable PSU which can also run cool.
Iāve got 10x 8w (IIRC) āPhillipās Masterā dimmable LED down lighters in the kitchen. (The only Replacements available for a direct swap with the old 50W two thin pin halogen ones with transformers at the time). They still use the old external transformers and the bulbs have black (cooling?) fins around the LEDās perimeter. Same size, straight swap. I think they can work with 240v as well. They have been going for 10 years+ and not one has failed. They werenāt cheap but Iāve never had to get on a ladder to replace a single one.
Iāve got cheap LED bulbs everywhere else and yep they donāt last anywhere near as long. Always replacing them; cheap Ikea, B@Q ones etcā¦
SteveCook much longer life than GLS lamps.
In our last home the builder installed an understair cupboard with a door operated micro switch - no isolation switch. This was in 1972. When we sold the house in 2018 it was using the same bulb. Obviously low hours but definitely not worth changing to QH or LED.
OTOH we had LED bulbs in that home both daylight and warm white. When we moved in 2018 I swapped them out for QH and fitted them in our new kitchen. I guess we have lost 2-3 in over 12 years. I have never found the same lens style, dimpled. They were sold by a sole trader near Lincoln.
Pete UK Iāve got cheap LED bulbs everywhere else and yep they donāt last anywhere near as long. Always replacing them; cheap Ikea, B@Q ones etcā¦
I generally source from Amazon. The nightmare though is the large number of different fittings. I have 8 different fittings including a cooker hood that only accepts QH, a landing light pair of cluster bulbs but I need to fit a QH in one socket, and nightmare, 3 CF in a square shape in 3 bathroom light fittings. These CF are 7 years old and the whole fitting may well need replacement should they fail.
Thought:
If in winter I light my living room with a number of incandescent light bulbs I get 250w or more 'free' heat or light whichever one you chose.
Can i get a 65" CRT TV? That would do all the heating?
SteveCook but only in winter. You would need to discipline your usage to cold days.
If it was a smart TV you could display a log fire with crackling logs. Perfect for a small room and no harmful carbon emissions or ash dust.
