Long term outlook

Having been burned by the Ripple debacle I'm looking at a solar install (at least this way I actually have some control over it's destiny) however I understandably have been focussing on the health of the company along with the hardware itself (the hardware I'm relatively happy with.)
I have some niggling feeling about going with Givenergy after looking at reviews, job sites (to get a feeling for what's happening behind the curtains) & more importantly companies house.
What's everyone else's opinion? I don't want to be left with a warranty less, useless doorstop...

Currently I'm hung up with:
Accounts are late.
Working there seems like a circle of hell (https://uk.indeed.com/cmp/Givenergy-Ltd/reviews)
CEO had been very active & all smiles on camera until very recently, then upped and left (with no immediate new job?)
2 of the 3 local installers wouldn't touch them - both mentioned kit reliability & the I guess now obvious "you see a huge amount of reviews on trust pilot about good support - but a good product has a very small support desk, why are all those people needing them to sort issues in the first place? it should just work!"

davey_b
I wrote this.
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/5726-good-feedback

davey_b The system has been mainly OK but I definitely wouldn't buy GE again - too many gotchas with company ownership changing, CEO, managing director and other senior staff leaving in the last 5 months, late accounts, no telephone support* and that's before we start talking about the often shonky s/w & f/w.

Add on a bizarre expectation from GE that installers are initially responsible for warranties even after more than 2 years since install and its not a pretty picture.

I don't have any faith that a warranty claim would be honoured now in a reasonable timescale without taking legal action is the bottom line. Maybe in the past but definitely not now.

Avoid would be my advice. There are much better systems out there at comparable or cheaper prices.

Edit - the only thing I think I'd miss would be GivTCP, which is third-party software anyway.

*intermittent is a better description of support

Like Steve my system has worked well. I got a Gen 1 inverter too though at the time I had no prior knowledge. I had used the same firm as my brother in law as he had a good experience too. My system is different from his and my supplier went belly up a month or so later.

I had the foresight to specify a 5.25kW battery, an upgrade from that first offered, but with hindsight an 8kW or larger would have been better. IMHO bigger battery is better than bigger array.

You should also consider potential home systems upgrades such as ASHP and EV. Each has lower off peak tariffs which benefit larger batteries.

davey_b a warranty less, useless doorstop...

Just because something is out of warranty doesn't mean it is useless. My telly, fridge, and even my kitchen sink are all out of warranty but still working fine.

I consider my GivEnergy warranty a liability. Because the equipment is under warranty if it fails I can only get it fixed by GivEnergy, no one else will repair/replace it. My system reduces my energy bill by over £100 per month. If it were to fail, I would have to wait for a GE engineer to come a repair/replace it (for free under warranty). I think typical fix time is 6 to 8 weeks, so the FREE fix actually costs £150-£200 in lost savings/export income. If I could call out a local repair company that would come out and fix it next day, they may charge £50 callout, £50 for a reconditioned inverter, and £50 for an hours labour to swap it out, but I would end up no worse off.

If GE were to cease trading, there would be repair companies that would buy up second hand kit and offer a repair service. So possible loss of warranty should not really be a consideration.

When my system was designed in 2022, I had about 12 manufacturers to choose from. I still think that of the GivEnergy system was the best available choice at that time. Since then there have been many new entrants into the market (for inverter and battery equipment not panels). Off the top of my had I can think of
Atmoce
Dyness
Ecoflow
Eleven
Enphase
Fox
Fronius
GivEnergy
GoodWE
Growatt
Huawei
ICS
Instagen
MyEnergi
Polar
Pylontech
SigEnergy
Sofar
SolarEdge
Solax
Solis
Sungrow
Sunsynk
Tesla
Victron
That's 25 and I'm sure I've missed quite a few. The market is too crowded and there will be casualties soon.

Final point, looking at the long term, Lithium batteries may be history.
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/eleven-energy/4-5-kwh-sodium-ion-battery

[unknown] dont trust their ‘positive’ reviews on Trustpilot. They scrub all the bad ones - I posted negative review, GE flagged it as fake and Trustpilot requested an invoice from me that I have their kit installed and the invoice from my installer only states generic Inverter. As a result Trustpilot removed it.
I would personally stay away from them. None of their kit is trouble free and there are better alternatives.

Apart from a few niggles, my GE AIO 13.5 does pretty much what I expect it to do and aided by HomeAssistant w/predbat, it has certainly met my expectations.

When I decided to purchase, my decision was influenced by the EPS functionality of the GE AIO. Whilst not the primary reason for buying a battery, it was a very good "nice to have" and it supplements the UPSs that I already have on my key IT kit (plus telly : ) ).

As always, technology moves on and if I could start again, I may well choose something different now that I have reasonable experience in using a home battery. If possible, I would have a whole-house EPS, but I would definitely look for more battery capacity and also the ability to add batteries.

All of this is a bit moot really because I am stuck with my GE AIO for the next decade or so and can't quite justify a second parallel AIO to provide me with the extra capacity that I desire. Additionally, the DNO restricts my inverter to 3.68kW (unless in island mode) so I would be looking at a system that combines my solar panels, battery and EPS etc into a system with a single inverter so that I could guarantee 7kW to the home if needed.

Therefore, I will chug along with my AIO and look at the market again somewhen in the mid 2030s, at which point, I suspect it will be radically different

I can only say as I find. GE 6kw 13.5 installed 6 months ago. Other than a wrongly fitted CT on day one, 2 upgrades later which went smoothly, I wasn't even aware of the 4 hour power outage until the broadband in the street went off. Don't export, charge from solar and cheap EV rate, this system meets all our domestic needs. A scan of the Met office forecast for following day determines charging need if any. If the system performs like this for the remainder of its warranty, and I do not know the politics of the company, I shall be a happy customer.

I endorse the mainly positive response here. My 3 year old GivEnergy AC inverter / battery system has performed fine and continues to give me effectively zero cost electricity each year.
I have had no issues with the base systems. The App has the occasional issue but doesn't affect operation.

2 years nearly - Gen1 3.6, 2 x 5.2 all good so far, recommended to my brother last year he got the AIO and is also happy.

Same here - had AIO for 1 year now - initial problem of tripping was resolved and has been superb since. I like the kit a lot, and as I have stated elsewhere, if I were in the market now I would certainly be looking at the AIO 2 which I think will be a really neat and tidy installation

Same for me, my Gen1 AC3.0 plus 2x8.2kWh batteries are coming up for 4 years now. Still doing what I want including EPS and still on original firmware (maybe slightly less than perfect but good enough for me and too many upgrade horror stories on here to risk it...).
I suspect other satisfied customers may not even use the Forum. I try to keep up with it and learn something, eg I now know what an API is, but I must admit, I'm beginning to struggle, these days.

Roy124 I am surprised you think a bigger battery is better than a bigger array? A battery can only store energy you buy or generate, a larger array generate energy you can use, sell or store. even in fairly drab conditions a larger array may well produce the energy you need to consume so my preference was and is a bigger array and appropriate tariff.

I have a 9.5 battery and a total of 27 panels.
In the 4 "dark" winter months there is very little sun and I could do with another 9.5 to get me through 24 hours on Eco7 off peak charge. More panels would not really help because on the lack of sun.
The reason I have not added the battery is I have a Gen1 Hy 5.0 and can only charge 2.6kw (should have got a Gen2, but Covid delays messed that up).
More panels in summer though leads to more generation I can sell.
Somewhere there is some sort of complicated calculation to tell me what I should do.

Panels are expensive to install because of scaffolding and roof works etc, battery just plug in.

Hopeful In winter the grid was used to charge the battery at the cheapest rate but with only a 5kW battery the ASHP exhausted the battery store before the end of the high tariff period. A larger battery would avoid that.

While a larger array would provide some additional input to the battery this, I believe, would not overcome the battery running out of power after 1600 as there is no solar input in winter after that time.

In summer, and favourable solar, a larger array would be exporting more to grid as a smaller battery would soon be full.

It really is a complex issue with many variables. From the end or March and through most of April my small 3.25kW array and 5.25kW battery has driven down my kW cost to around 12p. A bigger array would drive that lower in summer but would be insignificant in winter.

At the moment I do not have an EV but if I had the equation changes again. Do I switch to the EV rate, which is about half the Cosy off-peak rates and does not have a high peak time Cosy rate. My thought is that EV would probably be better and a bigger battery better again.

I have a gen 1 5kw, 9.5 battery, 6.24 east/west panels, heat pump and an EV. March’s average electric price shown on Octopus bill was 7.29p, January was 10.42p. I think this is down to using IOG as even though when it was dark and really cold the battery was charged at the 7p rate and only ran out before teatime a few times. House is 21c and we do about 9k in the car. I am hoping that when we get a full year in (heat pump was fitted August 24) the total bill will be around zero. A bigger house battery would probably help but is not remotely economic. We have 16 panels and no more sensible room for more. So my advice would be get an EV and IOG.

All EV owners have a massive battery sitting outside. As soon as vehicle to home technology comes on the market (many cars are already compatible e.g. BYD) I will taking advantage of my EV battery to power my home hence why I am not considering a bigger home battery.

[unknown] we have a BYD showroom about 40 minutes away. Will have to have a look.

My BiL has an EV and Octopus, smaller battery at 3.5kW. Must ask him about his bills.

anthonypar Does predbat have the ability to control vehicle to home transfer as well as the Givenergy battery?

[unknown] Does predbat have the ability to control vehicle to home transfer as well as the Givenergy battery?

Predbat has the ability to control lots of different battery types, and its extensible so you can define custom types as long as there is an API or integration for Home Assistant.

It would really depend on the car/car charger integration, how easy they are to control the V2G. If there’s commands like start charge, stop charge, pause discharge then yes, could be done in Predbat

In practical terms I think we are still a few years away from such V2G integration, and it’ll probably need a kick of government intervention to force standards on the industry, but likely it will come and in 10 years time it’ll be as common as home storage batteries today

Vehicle to Grid/Home is still in its infancy. One of the big challenges is getting an EVSE (charger) that supports it. Quasar had one and it was over £5K. Indra have one in development....no idea on when it will be launched.

I have 15 panels on two roofs & 2 x 9.5kWh Gen 2 Batteries (1 x 9.5kWh batt & 5 extra panels added after initial install) with a 3.6kW Gen 2 Hybrid inverter.
Apart from a few initial installation teething problems my system has been working fine for the best part of 2 & a bit years now. My only regret is not getting a G99 & a larger Inverter at day one because a max of 3.6kW to the house from the batteries is not enough - & I don't have a HP & probably not going to get one either.
The GE system download updates have been OK & the App is OK if not brilliant. I went with GE because that was what my installer offered me at the time. There are more choices now & knowing what I now know I'm not sure if I would go GE again.
That said my system is working well enough. The extra battery capacity now gets me through the dark winter days & last months overall net cost (including export) for electricity was -£5.64. Gas was extra. So far this month we are earning +£35.54 net & our energy account with Octopus is in the black to the tune of +£534.26. So, on that basis my system is doing what I want by reducing our energy costs & paying back the initial investment costs. I just wish I had a more powerful Inverter.

Sigenergy look to be the closest with their DC EV chargers. Be interesting to see who cracks it first.

GE has not been an easy ride but works well for us at the moment. It's about 2.5 years old and we have a 5kw hybrid, 19kwh of storage and 10.1kwp on the roof, E/W. We also run an EV and A2A ASHP.

My concern with GE is the apparent frailty of support and the potentially significant wait if something fails. Even now I'm reluctant to hit the firmware update having had two failures in the past necessitating all sorts of convolutions to get it all running again.

That said, if I knew GE support was going to improve substantially and if there was confirmation that the company is actually stable (we're all guessing) then I'd probably do it again. The gear we have is allowing us to be effectively cost free for utilities (except water) across the full year. Fundamentally the gear and the app seem decent, just other (important) areas which are hit and miss. Hopefully they can sort that out.

Roy124 Yes I agree that winter is a downer for solar gen but in the summer I make hay and that offsets my winter fuel costs. That being said I haven't given up my gas boiler for a HP as the running cost would be prohibitive but the cost of a second AIO was close to that of an additional 15 panels so I went panels and I am not regretting it.

Hopeful I haven't given up my gas boiler for a HP as the running cost would be prohibitive

the running cost of a heat pump is in most cases lower than that of a gas boiler, as long as its setup and controlled in the right way

of course there is the upfront installation cost, gov grants at the moment, etc

adding more panels is probably a better investment than an extra AIO, I'd have done the same.

We have 44 panels, generate loads in summer, build up an account credit and that runs the heat pump through the winter for a roughly net zero annual bill.

geoffreycoan I dont think our colander....erm I mean house is very practical for a heat pump as we would struggle to site one and our floor, wall, and boarded loft insulation isnt particularly great compared to newer builds.
I wasn't particularly chuffed when all our new windows had to have trickle vents either, like I need more air leaks!!

davey_b Had my AIO installed in late 2023, has been nothing but SoC troubles with shitty firmware until about just over a month ago. It's now finally working "acceptably" but I don't fully trust it.
Not to mention the weird split phase thing it does when it's off-grid.
The quality of the firmware from GE is not great and it doesn't fill me with confidence in any of their future products.
I wouldn't buy GE again and I also wouldn't recommend it to friends.

If I had to do it all over again I would go with Victron and whatever batteries I can get hold of; at least this would be an open eco-system.

Blasteh Not to mention the weird split phase thing it does when it's off-grid.

You need to get that fixed. Its a screwup by GE where they didn't link neutral to earth when grid voltage is lost. It invalidates your home insurance as its non-compliant with electrical regs.

I suggest you get in touch with GE to get it sorted.

Vestas what exactly do I say to them and how is the average person supposed to know this?

Blasteh Have a hunt around here, apparently the gateway needs replacing for certain serial numbers, otherwise its a firmware/software change. NB - that's what I'm aware of but I don't have an AIO so I don't follow the problems much.

As to how you're supposed to know - you're not, this is basic regulatory stuff which should have been handled properly by GE in the first place, and certainly chased up manually by them as they caused the problem and know the serial numbers of affected units.

This maybe the new long term thing of the future. A UK electrician has purchased a written off Tesla with a 85 kW battery that was not damaged. Got the battery out with part of the frame, bolted it to the wall, and got it going supplying the house. When you compare this to having loads of batteries e.g 6 x AIO (not possible today) at £4k each it’s a no brainer. There are quote a few videos of people doing it now.

It could be the thing of the future, I never thought it was possible.