Giv Energy in Administration

Not surprising based on all of the poor service. What does this mean for customers and any advice on what we should do?

The midsummer announcement is here
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/Givenergy-entry-into-administration
Notice of Intention filed here
https://caseboard.io/cases/3bce5889-8fa9-4961-804f-a9a407993ef3

It depends on the relationship between the 5 different GE entities. The case here looks like it belongs to the entity responsible for the hardware and not the software. Perhaps they are so interdependent that if one goes they all go ?

There's a fair few more related entities if you search by common addresses.
101110... ltd and so on.

From our point of view hardware entity is the one we care about if that is the entity that our equipment warranty is with. Likewise support.
We have perfectly good local control solutions but if there is a fault or failure we are left with replacement with an alternative vendor as our only recourse.

hoggy Indeed - and changed addresses of course 😉

In my case I bought from UK Solar Experts, they did the install etc, Will they now have to honor any warranty claims? even if they have to replace with another brand? a bit worried tbh..

Domo Good question, well presented. I’m sure one of the legal eagles on the forum will be able to provide the legal position.

Was any part of it paid by credit card?

As for warranty claims, it falls on the installer first, and yes, as stated above, they need to replace with, like for like, even if it's not the same make or model, as close as

lifco Is that a standard part of consumer law ? Would be interested to see where that is documented ?

My installer has also gone bust, going well isnt it.

lifco Just read that UK Solar Experts went into administration and have been bought by Titan Energy,
Nice of them to let their customers know ffs ...
From Titan Energy Systems

"Leaders in home solar installation, improving the quality of life for homeowners by capturing and directing the abundant solar energy into homes. - UK Solar Experts has been acquired and merged into Titan Energy Systems, strengthening service delivery and long-term customer support."

I am sure Ed Milliband is all over these issues making sure the green agenda is moving forwards sucessfully

SteveCook

I am getting fed up of these Ed Mills lazy jibes...

Labour has been far more positive on getting the country away from our reliance on fossil fuels. The Tories and Farage are in the pockets of the fossil fuel companies and had 14 years to legislate to help the consumer but they are backed by big businesses so I wouldn't hold out too much hope...

Yet you keep on taking lazy shots at someone who might actually help consumers and is certainly getting better advice from experts than Farage or Badenoch.

But hey let's make lazy political jibes in a forum designed to help customers of GE kit...

🙄

I am not trying to take shots at anyone or any party, (though Mr Milliband does not inspire me with confidence - sorry), I am just feeling disappointment that myself (and possibly others on this forum) have tried to do the right thing in terms of the environment and green agenda and made big personal investments (no grants or schemes for me), only to find I may soon be sitting on a very expensive pile of non-working bits. I think whatever party is in place needs to do something to provide some protection. I dont expect to get any financial support and accept that, but to see GivEnergy just walk away is not good.
I support what Mr Milliband is trying to achieve, but I feel uncomfortable that Joe Public are left exposed financially.
All my bees died this winter due to long and damp weather and I am now going to have to start again buying new swarms etc. No grant for that either and I make no money from them. I just did because it was the right thing to do.

SteveCook am not trying to take shots at anyone or any party, (though Mr Milliband does not inspire me with confidence - sorry),

Your comments are clearly knocking one man who has been in office for less than 2 years and you seem to think he can magic up the changes in around 20 months.

This is most probably not even on his radar. Have you written to your MP?

You are playing into the hands of Farage with such comments and he certainly won't help us...

M_J
I am sorry that you think I am taking pot shots. My comments come from 40 years as a Chartered Engineer in the Building Services Consulting industry and my efforts in designing buildings to save energy.
Please do not associate me with Mr Farage in anyway.

Can we agree to differ and leave it at that please.

M_J You have an odd obsession with Farage. Miliband is the in office now, and is therefore responsible for current proceedings and policy related to these matters. Anyone has the right to hold their current representative to account no matter which party affiliation they may have.

Looks like someone has been talking to the national press (or they've been reading forums).

Its only the Daily Diana but even so -

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/2191721/uk-battery-manufacturer-brink-administration

Vestas
Not me guvnor

Al E.Gator You have an odd obsession with Farage

ROFL..

The only one with an obsession is Steve who has twice made spurious comments about Miliband which I have twice now questioned and said twice while he is not someone I particularly like is the best of all the current options. Comparing the other choices.

The possible serious situation we could find ourselves in with our own mini Trump, drill baby drill is one possibility.

If we want to protect democracy we need to stand up and be counted and challenge lazy political shots...

So if I don't see any further cheap political shots I won't respond...

Simples...

😉

Vestas only the Daily Diana but even so -

Yep fits their agenda...

I can guess how it's being spun by the fossil fuel funded rag...

I hope we should all be able to agree that at very least we all write to our MPs asking that they support changes that will

1. Make it mandatory that renewable energy solutions must be open and allow users to be able to control them locally. And that a local control solution must be provided by the vendor that the point of sale.

2. Consumers are protected in the event that their vendor goes under and it bought by another investor such that any cloud based storage/control that was being used before the original company went into liquidation remains at the same level including free if it was originally.

Appreciate that there could be other classes of equipment that this could also be applied to.

Maxwell hope we should all be able to agree that at very least we all write to our MPs asking that they support changes that will

Yep great suggestion...

I will send mine a message along these lines.

M_J Its actually accurate, hence me saying someone has been talking to them.

Maxwell I'm not sure you'll find any MPs able to understand point 2 😃

Vestas
To help us all - could you please draft a generalised letter - here in this forum - so that we can all (well those with a mind to do so!) cut and paste it to send to our (current) MP? Using words that even "he/she/they" can understand??
Thank you in advance...

Vestas Just setting it up for you 😉

I don't think point 2 will fly. Not if point 1 has been implemented.

I can't see anyone putting a law in place that says "forever means forever". Companies have promised that before*, not delivered and nothing happened to them.

It's not (IMHO) reasonable to expect a service to be provided "forever" and unchanged. It is reasonable to expect it to be provided for the duration of any warranty however.

Stick to demanding full functionality with local controls. MPs aren't generally very bright - and especially not the ones who've been there 20 years - so stick to something simple.

1) Local controls - full functionality
2) Cloud controls - duration of warranty

Even the senile/drug addled/alcoholic MPs ought to understand that.

*anyone around at the start of the dial-up internet era will have seen plenty of that from ISPs of the time

Vestas Yes, agreed here. The really critical point is full local control in the event of a cessation in trading, and that means full control of every register, not just a couple of read only data points.

Vestas I think I'm a little more on edge about it as I have multiple inverters and batteries and if one inverter died, I couldn't just hook the then spare battery up to one of the remaining 2 inverter batteries and make it work. Particularly with an EMS afaik it needs telling how many inverters it's controlling, and if inverter goes down, the whole system goes down. Could be wrong here though.

Al E.Gator Wouldn't you just disconnect the EMS and run one inverter? Edit - oh you've got 4 batteries...

M_J If we want to protect democracy we need to stand up and be counted and challenge lazy political shots...

Surely taking potshots IS democratic, just as you chose Farage as your target of return fire. Democracy means people are free to say what they feel, not just what YOU want them to feel.

{gets back under rock and mutters about staying on topic}

We all knew this was coming, their repeated failings and enshitification of the app and web portal, the total lack of support.

I'm only 3yrs into my system... shitty management from a shitty company.

Hopeful yeah but as you mentioned, staying on topic isn't about taking idle, inaccurate potshots at Starmer (or indeed anyone else) inappropriately. For example, I think Farage and his ilk are grifting chancers but I refrain from dropping it into posts on solar forums. So yes, back on track.

On the subject of warranty & installers responsibilities, take a look at look at this by The Renewables Podcast. An installers viewpoint of the Giv situation.

CGoode Helps if I add the link!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COUPQ2XD9Zc

CGoode He's wrong about the app. All that happened was his phone acted as a proxy to GE servers via mobile data.

Haven't seen a single installer/employee who understands how the app works, and why it doesn't work when the endpoints are blocked. ie it doesn't work locally and never has.

He doesn't have a clue about the CRA 2015 - its the VENDOR who has to prove the equipment wasn't faulty at point of sale in the first six months, NOT the customer.

The six years figure isn't going to apply if your installer sold you (directly) an extended warranty from 5 to 10 years. They can't then subsequently claim that they expected it to last for four years less. Nobody sells warranties for periods when equipment is likely to fail due to aging of components. A district judge really won't look favourably on anyone claiming nonsense like that as a defence.

Lots of wishful thinking in that video - which I can quite understand, but I think the reality of the situation is GE are done with the UK. Nobody is ever going to fit/buy their kit again, so why would the Chinese support installers in the UK?

GE Software will probably split and/or sell their rights to GE "global". UK side goes on maintenance release only and is slowly run down as end-user equipment fails/is replaced, global side continues to develop.

Going to MPs is a hiding to nothing IMO it’s a niche market, and batteries are mostly a middle-class issue that won’t get political traction.

You cant even point at solar as an argument as MCS is just an installer-led assurance scheme, not real consumer protection, and doesn’t affect global products.

Car market where volumes are much higher, and you could argue losses are greater doesn't have protection if a company goes under.

Forcing investors to take on old warranties for legacy batteries, that the old company doesn't even make anymore makes no commercial sense and would likely kill deals rather than protect customers.

Mandating open/local would increases support burden, and could push global manufacturers out of smaller markets like the UK - plus each BMS is unique offering different solutions and different chemistry so an attempt to make them all standardise the API wouldn't fly.

Cloud services cost money and aren’t essential to the product not a core function, so expecting them to be maintained indefinitely isn’t realistic unless a company taking it on as such can make it chargeable, which is kinda whats happening now it seems.

Most importantly I guess is the existing warranty wasn't full protection anyway. It covered repair, replace or refund. So on a warranty fix first question they would have is "is it economical to do it" and if not refund, which would be discretionary (aka likely adjusted for age) and wouldn't include any install costs and so its not likely to be 100% - Warranty does not guarantee you a working battery for the term.

DreadorUK Warranty does not guarantee you a working battery for the term.

It does for "major failures" and makes no mention of adjusting for age/usage (Battery Warranty 2022 v3) in those circumstances. It will get knocked down pro-rata on a claim but not like the GE "Compensation Scheme".

I for one am interested to see if the battery shuts down when it hits 70% of original capacity as the cell manufacturer mandates (for the LV battery cells anyway). I don't see how that can be called anything other than a "major failure" by an installer who likely won't have a clue why its happened.

We'll see. My installer is privately owned by a house builder (few hundred/thousand new builds per year) who use them for all building work so the chances of them phoenixing are slim to zero. They'll have to eat the cost.

Vestas Thats the consumer law angle though and was still and angle with GIV in the game, but even that takes into account a deduction for use so still no guarantee of full refund - and if it went to court it would likely end up with a net no gain due to costs.

Our warranty was for 12 years.

They were supposed to do remote health checks at 5, 8 and 10 years and charge £29+VAT. Our installer gave us £104.40 to cover them.

lifco not sure if that’s correct, I had a vailliant boiler installed and when I had to get some technical support, I had to get their engineer to come and check. Nothing to do with my installer, once it’s up and running.

Same would be with any appliance including solar

My thoughts:

https://homeenergyefficiency-reallife.co.uk/solar-11-givenergy-administration-notice/

please do comment.

deepanshus When we had an issue with our in warranty inverter I went in the first place to GE. They said it was an installer issue to investigate. Then started the bun fight between installer and GE including the “our call out charges are bigger than yours etc. It took 5 months before GE replaced the inverter.

daveharding100 I liked the thoughts and some solutions to resolve a major problem for the end users but as you state the main aim of Administration is to maximise what can be salvaged for the creditors. Being realistic GivEnergy could have dealt with this problem earlier before the major retailers of GivEnergy equipment pulled the plug on stocking or selling the equipment, it would be quite difficult for a prospective buyer to recover from a very negative position and rebuild trust in the sales support and quality of the equipment. We as consumers have been slow to voice in general terms how good the equipment has been and is, most of the comments I have seen on the forum have been very negative and some laced with expletives which add nothing to the conversation, surely it is time for those of us who may have had teething problems but now have a fully functioning system and are pleased with what was promised in the sales blurb to stand up and be counted. Yes I had an inverter problem some years ago and yes my system was down for a couple of months but it did get resolved and fingers crossed it is working and like most giving me a return on my investment far greater than can be obtained elsewhere. I like most hope that a company will step in and rescue the company but in the meantime I hope to have local control of my system and leave well enough alone all the time it continues to operate.

RegHall stand up and be counted

I don't know what you hope to achieve with this - GivEnergy completely burned their bridges with users and most importantly with installers.
Users who have tried to get GivEnergy equipment installed prior to administration were unable to find any local installers who would still deal with the company. If there was a chance to turn things around that passed over a year ago. Without installers there is no business.
The company was disasterously managed and this was the inevitable result of that.
If it will be sold then it will be to someone who wants the staff, facilities and expertise for their own brand - Octopus would be a prime candidate for this in the same way as they make their own "Cosy" branded Heat Pumps. With all the staff gone even the chances of this seem slim to none.
I for one would not have recommended GivEnergy equipment for the last twelve months as it was very clear that GivEnergy were either unwilling or unable to support users even with completely failed systems. If I am to make a recommendation to friends and family it has to be something I am reasonably confident won't be an expensive paperweight in a few months time.

RegHall

I think most of us on the forum have had issues at some point that’s par for the course of a forum to get help, but then to help.

To this day, I have a battery that will every blue moon fail to kick on power the house and needs a reboot, and I’ve had that for more than a year now - I just put up with it in the end and have devised a workaround with a switch bot.

Its great that yours as calmed down as such and works, but that in a way means you've missed the new users where support has been poor, and that’s led to people’s frustration.

The click of death was never dealt with well enough back in 2023 either which gave them alot of bad press.

Situation wasnt helped either with Giv's push to speak to installer first even years after install so I dont think it was consumer negativity that was part of the downfall it was third-party noise - Octopus dumped them due to continuing issues with the kit, and many installers started refusing to install them due to the support ping pong and kit issues - to be blunt GIV had plenty of opportunities to sort but just didn’t adapt fast enough.

My main gripe with GIV personally was always the cloud data - it’s a gold mine of info they never tapped into and from a support point of view could have been used to be proactive on issues, but they never used it, if they did third party installers etc wouldn’t have been so stuck in the middle, and the net end resolution which would have happened anyway.

RegHall Go look at Trustpilot. Properly. Take note of the many installers who have posted. Note that GE holds bottom place in all the categories they chose to be listed in. Note that has been the case for nearly 18 months.

GE have been going bust for a very long time now. You missed it.

Apparently the zoho-hosted support pages will disappear early this week - Wednesday probably. If you haven't downloaded stuff from there already then you should do so now.

Hi The point I was trying to make is that the company could,should ,have taken note of the complaints from 2023 when equipment started to go wrong and it was taking in many cases far too long to repair or replace. In my case with a faulty inverter the engineer arrived at my home address to complete repairs but only after my installer had paid a fee and the money cleared before a date for the visit was fixed, at that time I thought that the business was in need of an overhaul to enable it to continue. I am still of the opinion that the equipment is good but let down by very poor management.

RegHall It won’t be bought as a going concern. There are no employees left, the name is muck and worthless. The only assets are the IP (which may well lie with the Chinese parent anyway) and the user base (which they’ve intended to monetise via a subscription).

DreadorUK it’s a gold mine of info they never tapped into

Mmmm isn't it just. Now owned by GE Software who need some cash (supposedly).

If they aren't already feeding that data (import/export/load etc) through an AI model to sift it down to the level of "you need a new dishwasher" and serve up ads/nags on the app then someone will.

People obsess about smartmeter data privacy. That's like having an impenetrable cloak compared to what GE Software know about us 😃

So the servers seem to be down (4 hours and counting) and may never return. I wonder how long this community discussion will last.....

ToothyChris So the servers seem to be down

Which servers?

Everything on the portal works, comms.givenergy.cloud works ermm so what are you on about?

Vestas The dongles seemed to drop their connections from routers. The web portal has stopped reporting data, from 10am onwards. People using the App can only see data in the Home setting. This seems to be widespread, and is unchanged once the dongles reconnect.

ToothyChris Like @Vestas I have no problem accessing the servers. Portal works, App works (although I don't use it very often). Api works (Octopus have been happily sending commands all day).
Perhaps there is a network issue between you and the servers.

ToothyChris How is it widespread?

Vestas Lots of similar reports on one of the FB Groups.

ToothyChris You mean people who haven't checked their system connects in ages and have all tried/failed in the last couple of days because GE going bust was in the Daily Diana? 🙂

Vestas He he. But seriously, lots of people lost contact at about 10am. Some say it has reconnected, and some (like me), are still without a connection to the server. The fact that it is not affecting everyone, suggests it may get resolved once GE open up tomorrow, if anyone is left.

Dongle flashing blue every second, no data update since 10:00.
Laptop still has access to Portal.
If GE doesn't "repair" connection does the Dongle have to flash forever? It's annoying !

Newman I think GE have tried to update your dongle. See other threads.

Newman If I remember correctly, the dongle flashes if it doesn't have a connection to your router. Mine did the same this morning. If you power cycle your router they may find each other again - but some of us are still not getting an external connection to the GE server.

See https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/6811-dashboard-failure/

It appears to affect different generations of equipment differently. The suggestion is that GivEnergy have turned off a server.

pwdst or pushed an update

Mine has just reconnected.

Its an interesting point of law I guess. Can a company already in admiistration push an update to customers equipment? Who is liable if it goes wrong?

I understand this one may have been made with the best of intentions but making changes to customer equipment firmware after entering administration without consent to point at a new (very valuable now) domain.... 🙁

I guess it won’t be long before the lights go out. Still there is at least a point of contact.

Maxwell I saw some change on 9/4 so assumed their normal solicitors passed it on. Didn't know who to.

Well spotted.

M_J Well said.

On 17th April, BBC finally caught up and posted a news article.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn539rwe330o

On 21st April, GivEnergy has fully vacated Osprey House, and it is available for rent.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/agents-society-assets-files/0869b4f3267b0fbca31a88ac20fefd4b-unit-1-brymbo-road-newcastle-under-lyme-st5-9qd.pdf

The registered address has been changed to the office of Chris Brooksbank, the Administrator.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11571089/filing-history
https://www.cb-br.co.uk/contact-us/

Wonder if that is on behalf of the administration or its Givenergy Property Ltd that own that.

There was also Newspaper Lane unit wasn’t there? Not sure where the software team resides.

Sure somewhere there is a £1M bit of land in Hull.

hoggy Newspaper house on Chemical Lane. Not sure on ownership / rental status.

According to this article, GivEnergy bought Osprey House.
https://www.visitstaffordshire.com/be-inspired/blog/post/dozens-of-jobs-created-as-major-energy-storage-company-opens-new-uk-hq/
The Land Registry shows the purchase as £2.7M on 30th October 2023.
Not sure why the Administrator is trying to rent it, rather than sell it.

A whois search shows that givenergy.co.uk is registered until 1st October 2034. Someone was being optimistic!

hoggy GE Property had assets of over £8 million (that's probably what the inter-company loan was secured on) so clearly there's more premises out there.

Rubikcube I wonder what's on the 3rd floor and why its not for rent 😉

Chemical Lane site is here. https://maps.app.goo.gl/WqGqEfsSqgW2Kgu37

Vestas maybe that's where the software team are.
Or maybe that's the warranty docs shredding dept now....

They did buy some other land:
https://www.thebusinessdesk.com/westmidlands/news/2089699-land-deal-paves-the-way-for-clean-tech-centre-of-excellence which i guess is somewhere here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/D9iouzTzhWwBG9AS6

And apologies the land in Hull was not Givenergy related, just it's owner(s) -
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14896664/filing-history
(See registration of charge doc)

Vestas That would more than likely be the software division - having an entity that other entities pay rent to only really makes sense when different entities are co-located. Having software and hardware entities co-located also makes sense to me since the software needs to communicate with the hardware and this allows easier collaboration.

Rubikcube I have actually been to that one when I was working in Stoke a few years back. Said hello to Mick.
Was before the AIO came out so they were showing off the gateway & some of the (at the time) unknown HV battery stack stuff.

hoggy They did buy some other land

Probably this:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/SXA5PBtticJBd1e37

Vestas Yep it was that. They did have some signs up until recently - Acquired by GivEnergy

It'd be very interesting to see the full accounts of these companies because superficially it appears to me that GE Ltd must have been funding GE Property Ltd acquisitions in 23/24.

It'd certainly explain some of the losses GE Ltd incurred in 2024.

For example - the site I linked would have been tailor-made for Polar-ESS installers and I'm fairly sure that was the intent.

I think we've all been rinsed - employees and customers alike.

Rubikcube Be a real downer for anyone taking up residence especially if they are using GE inverters and batteries in there 😉

Maxwell That's what the white sea container is to the right of the front door at Osprey house (looks like someone is emptying it on the Lease Advert) - A Givenergy Commercial Battery.

So it looks like Giv software team are keeping the top floor of Osprey House. I count 104 panels on the roof, so I guess there is kit on the top floor useful for testing software. The lower 2 floors are to be rented out, to pay the administrators fees raise funds for the creditors.

Vestas very interesting to see the full accounts

You probably know, the administrator has to submit a report to Companies House within 6 months of the start of administration, explaining the financial position for the creditors.

Rubikcube I doubt the administrator will go back 3 years to investigate what happened when as its of no relevance to his task. Also he'll have no access to GE Property records, which I think will be the interesting accounts.

Not that any of this makes any difference to the current state of play, I'm just curious as to whether I was effectively getting shafted even before I bought the system 🙂

Rubikcube The lower 2 floors are to be rented out, to pay the administrators fees raise funds for the creditors.

Surely the building is owned by GE Property, in which case its nothing to do with the administrator.

Vestas I'm just curious as to whether I was effectively getting shafted even before I bought the system

In my opinion, the decline of GivEnergy started on 22nd December 2022, when Howlett joined as a director. If you ordered your system before then, you made a sound and solid decision. After that date, then yes you got shafted.

The demise of GivEnergy is clearly a team effort. A lot of people have made a lot of poor decisions along the way. I am pretty sure it is down to incompetence rather than anything intentional. There will be some people who want to find an explanation, but looking for who is responsible is trying to identify which car caused a traffic jam.

Vestas This is a director-appointed administration, Osler and Brooksbank are working together so money can be moved around as required to meet their objectives.

It is quite different to (the more common?) creditor-appointed administration, where the administrator works for the creditor (usually a bank).

Anyone can see the structure is nothing but an accounting tool. Givenergy is one business (in the UK). Nothing like for example Kingfisher which owns B&Q and Screwfix, where anyone can see B&Q and Screwfix are separate businesses.

Rubikcube which way did the property loan go? I'm not sure of the detail but I read somewhere that cash was effectively siphoned out of one of the legal entities (millions) into another. If this was outgoing from Giv Ltd, then surely it's worthy of investigation?

sponev Investigation by whom?

I don't see any evidence of wrongdoing, only incompetence.

If the director(s) had done something fraudulent and then reported it publicly in the accounts filed at Companys House, that would be incompetence. 🙂

Rubikcube hypothetically, if cash is siphoned from one business to another to the point where the original business becomes non-viable, is that incompetence or fraudulent? Is that what actually happened though? I read elsewhere that it was like that but as usual with these things, there's a lot of speculation. But if it did happen like that, then it doesn't sit well.

Self-appointed adminstrators is often "smelly" as well. I know of one national solar company who went pop repeatedly and appointed the same "dodgy" adminstrators each time simply to help them manouvre. Fortunately the law caught up with them eventually. There are a lot of disgruntled folk who've suffered from this and my guess is that some of them won't let it lie until there's full transparency on what went on. Time will tell I guess.

Well it looks like two of our community are still exposing themselves to the web. In fact it's the same two that i sent details of to GE security after the last time i posted about it. And i guess their security folks have other things on their mind (assuming they still have that role).

So, to help jog memories here are some characteristics of their setup. I am doing this in a way that is ethical and secure but hopefully gives enough detail for someone if they are reading this will be able to check their own setup against the details.

3 inverters
using duckdns
Use Vodafone as a broadband provider
Could be based around Solihull (but that is based on geolocation of ip address and doesn't always relate to user location)
The last octet of the ip address their Home Assistant is using on their local area network is 17 (eg x.y.z.17 where x, y and z are the first three numbers in the address)
The last octet of their public ip address is 150 (eg a.b.c.150 where a. b and c are the first three numbers in the address). This is the address that the following services are accessible on.
Welcome to the GivTCP environment setup page
Home Assistant web login (in clear, unencrypted connection)
Home Assistant Oberver set up
Running Redis
MQTT
mDNS to the web (this is where your internal LAN ip address for HA and your duckdns base url details are visible)

The other exposed one has the following details.

3 inverters (just wondering whether the default givtcp environment set up always shows 3 inverter blobs. If so then the 3 could be red herring).
PlusNet broadband provider
Possibly London based, again based on geo-location of ip address so doesn't always match user location)
The last octet of their public ip address is 96 (eg a.b.c.96 where a. b and c are not the same numbers as the previous example).

This is the address that the following services are accessible on.
Welcome to the GivTCP environment setup page

If you look through the GE accounts for the different entities you can see that "property", "commercial", "software" and "givenergy ltd" (the one in administration are all subsidiaries of Givenergy Group (which is still currently active). And the Givenergy Group have GivEnergy PTE Ltd,, a company registered in Singapore as their immediate parent undertaking. And at the top of the tree is Shenzhen Givenergy Co Ltd in China. Clearly other parts of this beast are not in administration yet the administrator has said they can't support equipment guarantees.
Despite the statements about company control each one also has the same final matching statement on control which is

" At 31 December 2024, the ultimate controlling party was Jason Osler.".

It feels that like this is just another layer in the maze where you can use a web of companies like this to shield you from losses never mind what happens to the customers...

The latest update from the administrator has landed.
Lots of intercompany related mess and a very pointed blaming of a previous director under the Section 3 - 'What went wrong' bit.

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11571089/filing-history

hoggy I couldn't find the 'what went wrong' bit, could you repost here?

hoggy I wonder where all the cars went? There seems to be over £300k of motors which have disappeared. I'm not even going to start on stock discrepancies.

Section 3 is just Osler blaming everyone else. The results of section 8 will be interesting.

In terms of the interconnected finances - well that's the GivEnergy brand trashed forever (worldwide). Nobody in their right mind should go near that brand ever again. Its a real shame a forensic accountant can't get hold of the actual accounts because a lot of it looks dodgy to say the least.

Not surprised they owe Revenue & Customs £700k in VAT; its entirely in character with these cowboys.

Vestas I wonder where all the cars went? There seems to be over £300k of motors which have disappeared. I'm not even going to start on stock discrepancies.

It's detailed in one of the attachments (can't remember which one)

CW Ah yes, they got "transferred to connected companies" before the administrator was appointed and the administrator wants them back by the sounds of things.

I'm sure Revenue & Customs will have taken note.

Vestas Described here

Also noted that he's requested all the other GE companies pay their debts. Comes to about £17m, and about £6m of that is owed by GivEnergy Software Ltd who can't pay (according to their last accounts).

I think Mr Osler's house of cards is collapsing.

And the administrator is getting nearly £400k for their work. And they owe circa £15M to their Singapore parent plus almost another £1M to their Chinese master in Shenzen.

Maxwell Money just goes round and round doesn't it 😉

In fact if Mr Osler's companies paid their debts to each other then the administrator would be left with £1.5m to pay creditors.....

Vestas Keep up the good work. I trust you will be writing to the administrator to point this out 😉

Maxwell I think the administrator was self-appointed i.e possibly friendly to the director. I've seen it before several times where the administrator was arguably in cahoots with the bankrupt company to make sure the owners were not disadvantaged. Not saying that's happened here but it's quite common and no-one gets taken to task usually. Unless of course one of more of the creditors has the balls/wherewithal to push it. I've heard elsewhere that certain parties are considering a challenge and it certainly feels like something needs to be done. Could just be idle chat of course but it would be nice to see certain individuals get challenged.

sponev From the detail in the documents...

sponev Administrators are usually brought in on behalf of a bank or other major creditors, or indeed wind-up petitions by government bodies such as HMRC but it is not particularly uncommon for directors to do it themselves.

Administration, however initiated, is a highly regulated process and essentially is the same no matter what. I am not saying strange things do not or cannot happen but the administrator is there to tidy up the financial status of the company sell it if as a going concern, or liquidate the assets to the benefit of the creditors. They should chase any and all debtors for payment. Not all crediters are equal; there will be a pecking order. For instance under law one of the preferential creditors will be employees owed redundancy money not yet paid. I hope any former employees will get what they are owed. This is a legal prescribed process.

The legal status of assets with a tangle of related but seperate company entities can be a mine field but essentially the legal status of assets wether transfered out or in would have happened before the administrator was active as all assets frozen under their control from that point until the administrators exit plan is implemented.

So, what in part I am saying any odd actions to protect assests from the process will have happened before the administrator was appointed,

killythebid yes you would hope that it's consistent and yet sometimes it's not entirely. I'm aware of a couple of directors who consistently set up and subsequently failed businesses, profiting personally and using the same advisors/administrator to help them manoeuvre. As I noted, I'm not saying that happened here but it can and does go on. The timescale and preplanning of the GE demise is of course unknown to us. What appears to be all above board, sometimes isn't unfortunately. Maybe the GE demise was simply incompetence, maybe not. I doubt we'll ever get to know the full detail.

I note that J.O. has made himself a secured creditor...

Vestas A little Power Dog perhaps?

Well the software bit aren't doing themselves any favours. According to the interweb (so it must be true), it is a criminal offence not to submit these statements.

Maxwell Who's there to do it? only 3 employee's

Where's HR
Where's payroll
Who does accounts?

wrighar Its the responsibility of the (sole) director. Nobody here will be surprised to hear that's Jason Osler & hence it'll come as no surprise he has scant regard for UK law as he's resident in Singapore.

GE Software are screwed anyway unless they come up with £6.2million to pay the administrator.

Vestas there's still an awful lot of poor folk on the various Facebook forums etc who think all is well and are solely reliant on GE Software. They're blissfully unaware of how precarious it all is.

@Vestas I guess the grey porta cabin at the back there is the registered office for Osler Holdings. "Rear Of Broach Hill Garage Beverley Road...." As per the companies house listing.

Maxwell Probably doesn't spend much time in the UK in case he gets taxed....

I have a premium subscription as I have a fault in the local reporting which is not apparent in the cloud data display. I have had an email to say it will be cancelled. Am I alone with this of has Givenergy Software gone down too?

RichardJ I don't subscribe to GE at all now but I read elsewhere that this has happened to quite a lot of folk. The guidance was just to resubscribe from the email. GE Software is still afloat as far as I know.

RichardJ

Just seen the other post about this; I went into the portal and cancelled the cancellation so hopefully OK..

sponev RichardJ Happened to me too ... I re-subscribed via the Cloud Portal and got a note back from Puddle to say my subscription will be taken on 25 July - so it seems I'm getting another free month 🙂

Have Puddle told you the same thing?

My premium via Axle Energy has just been reset to basic and asking for payment. Anyone else subscribed this way?

Log into your Axle dashboard and reactivate it. Go into Settings > Troubleshooting > Reconnect Device. This will restore your Premium Subscription.

Vestas Its the responsibility of the (sole) director. Nobody here will be surprised to hear that's Jason Osler & hence it'll come as no surprise he has scant regard for UK law as he's resident in Singapore.

GE Software are screwed anyway unless they come up with £6.2million to pay the administrator.

Are there any warrants in existence yet? Any suspicion of fraud/embezzlement etc? We do have an extradition treaty. 😃

I still can't get my head around what this £6.2million is supposed to cover. Not sure what assets the software part of the company might have had that could have been worth that amount.

mrand31 I think basically if you follow the money around the many "givenergy" companies you'll find the only secured creditor is Jason Osler.

The administrator is appointed to act in the interests of creditors. Secured creditors are #1 in the list of interests. Jason Osler appointed the administrator. Everyone else is screwed and its all entirely legal.

Any questions? 😃

Maxwell
Yes, but Companies House don't seem to worry too much if it's late. However, Jason Osler hasn't submitted his identification verification as required by Companies House (again, also unlawful) - and without that the Confirmation statement can't be submitted (and neither can any accounts). If he refuses to verify his identity and file required documents, it may be that the company is struck off.

LaurenceMee it may be that the company is struck off

Would that mean that it's no longer a limited company? 😃

It means it would cease to exist as any legal entity, limited or not. 😉

bRhFDKtjRMK9 If that happens, this will have technical consequences as well. The givenergy.co.uk domain name will fall free for anyone to take over. All Givenergy converters communicatie without encryption and without authentication so your inverter will be at the mercy of whoever obtains the domain.

Time to find out how to block Internet access of the inverter. (I tried redirecting the traffic from the inverter to my own server using an internal domain registration; with the help of AI I built a monitoring portal that works quite well)

Simplest way is just to set up 2 firewall rules blocking the inverter ip addresses from sending to the web or wan side in many firewall rules and another blocking any web traffic talking to your inverter IPs.

RG Pretty sure we went over this back in March, before they went bust......

The next part of the journey

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/5182792

Maxwell So the "directors" (ie Jason Osler) is seeking a decision from "creditors" (ie Jason Osler, who is the only secured creditor) about when the creditors (Jason Osler) will get their money...

My irony meter just exploded.

hoggy

I'm Spidecus

So will the administration decisions result in a winner or anagram of Osler ?

No prizes for guessing who this is ?

Japer Stole No, Sir

And I see that manuals/firmware files etc are again no longer available

And the windup (no pun intended) continues

Maxwell Logically all the companies bar one have to fail before the preferred creditor(s) get their dosh. They all "owe" money to each other.

Nice house of cards we bought into 🙁