What's everyone planing to do if/when kit fails please? Seems like the inverter is the weakest link. I looked yesterday with the idea to potentially stick a new hybrid V3 5kw up the loft - available online for between £700 - £1.1k. But can we commission it even? Probably yes but maybe not hassle free?
Or simply replace with different gear? What's the consensus please? I'm minded to simply start again with whatever looks sensible at the time.
sponev when the day arrives I'll be looking at Victron gear.
That’s a great question and I was asking myself the same.
The interim small steps I was pondering are balcony solar, we always could use more PV, with batteries attached to them.
Longer term an ‘open’ control type of battery and inverter. Ours are AC so don’t mess with the PV, hybrids might make this more tricky. But piece-wise replacement depending on which fails first. Inverters might last 15years our Sunnyboy is still going strong but everything goes pop eventually.
I guess I'll have to get an off brand inverter to go with my off brand batteries...
hoggy Are we ever going to hear about these batteries? 😉
Judith The interim small steps I was pondering are balcony solar, we always could use more PV, with batteries attached to them.
Very expensive way to go from the prices I've seen. Fair enough for tenants who can't install PV - if the inevitable wiring disasters don't cause mayhem, which is guaranteed.
These are very much flavour of the month:
Work with a variety of cheap inverters.
Frankly I think that's the route I'll take when something fails*. I don't want anything to do with ecosystems and AIOs etc now - cheap battery, cheap inverter, quick payback and no tie-in to some shonky cloud service.
*assuming the installer doesn't end up replacing at their cost but goes for pro-rata refund
sponev Whatever the flavour of the month is at the time is the short answer. The industry moves quick - so if the kit fails this year - it's a different answer to what I'd do in 3-4 years time.
I'll keep the GE stuff going as long as I can can.
The only thing that might make me replace when it's still working is if we decide to sell. I think selling with an end of life inverter/battery system might not go down well.
Vestas oh yeah forgot id not copied that across here. It's on Discord at the moment - I'd put it on here later
Cheers folks. I think it will be a case of run and keep your fingers crossed. Plus stay abreast of what's happening in the market and how quickly you can get a replacement in should the worst happen.
The other thing I need to evaluate is where we stand with warranty. Our original installer went pop and we used someone else to complete the job. However they only cover the inverter (we updated from gen 1 to gen 2) and ancilliary wiring checks. So they're not really liable for much. However, we used section 75 to get Barclays to (very reluctantly) cover the 10 year installer workmanship warranty - yes 10 years. But do Barclays now have to pick up the Giv kit warranty?
sponev I’d say yes, Barclays are liable for the warranty
I saw a YT video of an installer talking about how they (the installers) are now liable under the consumer credit act for the equipment warranty following the failure of the manufacturer, for 6 years under the consumer credit act. He was making the point (several times in the video) that they didn’t have insurance for this nor could they get insurance for this, and if customers forced the issue then many installers would go under as a result.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w9eDcrx6jM
I have a lot of sympathy for the installers, and its a mess, they never built this into their pricing model, but to be honest I suspect most installers treat EV chargers, batteries and solar the same as fitting a new consumer unit or a couple of sockets in a house, i.e. once its fitted and working then its job done and they can move on and never have to return or deal with the customer ever again.
The reality is that these are far more complex devices with circuit boards and software that can and does go wrong. It’s long been evident that there was a tension between GivEnergy and the installers as to who was responsible for what; my own installers wanted to charge me £500 to fit a replacement battery (supplied by GivEnergy) as “it wasn’t an install problem”.
And there’s no way that “the government” can pick this up, it seems to me to be an industry-wide issue and as someone in the comments on that video says, they have a dead battery, their contract is with the installer, what is the customer going to do, swallow the £3k loss?
Unfortunately with a closed Givenergy ecosystem and parts now no longer available (or in very very limited supply, and that will only get worse), all the installer is likely to be able to do is to replace the battery AND inverter if the customer equipment isn’t working. Fortunately prices have come down, but it’s still an expensive experience.
Final point, installers knew about these obligations, it’s covered in their contract terms and conditions. Here’s an extract of mine, and a couple of friends have checked their contracts and near identical words in theirs:
geoffreycoan Watched the video and I have some sympathies but when he starts going on about prices going up so installers can build up a "pot" for future problems then he loses me.
That's what you do with a long-term business - you don't rip every penny out of it in pay/dividends/directors loans. You plan for issues because they ARE going to happen. If you're not doing that then you have no business selling products designed to work for a decade or more.
Compulsory product insurance across the industry is the answer which will be imposed - just like double glazing - because having seen a few of these videos now, I'm astonished at how ignorant the owners of these companies are about basic consumer law. I don't think they can be trusted so compulsory insurance is what will have to happen.
A great question! One I have been considering.
Here’s mine. Install 2023, Giv 1 3.5, 2x5.2 batteries, installer bust, Giv bust. Thus up a Water Company Creek financially. I should break even on investment in 3 years. Happy to use Rubik to run Cosy, or HA if needed.
All ok now but future proofing.
Batteries will last (?) so buy a back up Giv inverter for ‘later’, which inverter shall I get, if at all? There are various new & used on eBay for £2-300 which I could easily afford. But would it be better to cut and run if my system dies?
What to do, what to do??
Watcher The going rate for 10-12kWh of storage is about £1.5-2k assuming you're not buying into Sigenergy/Tesla premiums.
Add an inverter for £600 and the base cost for a replacement (more capable) system is under £3k. Obviously you've got to add sparky fees and certs but the wiring for most people will mainly be in place already.
Is it worth buying an old inverter to preserve investment in old/aging batteries? Maybe worth it for batteries in good condition but for most people its going to be probably better swapping the whole system out due to sparky fees/certs.
Installed Aug 2021 PV 10 at 380W, GE Gen 1 2.6 KwH inverter and 1 8.2KwH. That battery failed under warranty and was swapped out by GE. In due course that failed and was swapped out for a 9.5 KwH by GE last year. Although I find the actually calculation of ROI tricky to be exact about - in terms of what I should factor in or ignore - I would say that I have pretty much broken even. So everything now crossed that the GE kit lasts and lasts. However when it does die I suppose that I will then go to market and see what offerings there are. As the PV will be unaffected I won't need to pay for that again which was a team of three to install them plus the scaffold to get them to the roof. Leave me to fund inverter (if separate) and battery storage and the installation. I had already decided that if I did this again, though then I was thinking about another property, I would choose something other than GE. I have learned a lot in the last nearly five years about life with solar, battery and an ev, but with what I now know I would have changed requirements. But I am totally on board with the concept and wouldn't now want to contemplate life without. That said if I was to start again in a new place I would look at quotes with and without the solar. Though that would make me vulnerable to the vagaries of the electricity costs and the continuation or not of the cheap overnight rate which have charged my home battery and car over these five years.
GrahamShaul you solar will last the best part of 25years from both manufacturers’ warranties and the physics of the degradation mechanisms
Inverters and batteries less long but should be 10+years without built-in faults. The snag is the latter point.
Vestas I agree balcony solar is silly prices now in uk but once Ikea, Lidl and Aldi get involved then let’s watch this space
Judith Ikea have already been involved in solar:
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2026/apr/13/ikea-solar-panels-soly-collapse-lost-3000
Very interesting to hear everyone's thoughts. I started by thinking I'd rip it all out and go again but on inspection I found that even the Sigs and Teslas etc have quite a lot of issues, not least, lack of easy local control. So in the last month I've set up HA (with guidance) and now don't really use the Giv app at all. I'll run it until it fails or at least until we outgrow it.
I too think that the manufacturer's warranty will fall back on Barclays in our case (initial section 75 when the installer went pop). This may or may not be a good thing as Barclays fought us tooth and nail initially - basically they did everything to avoid fulfilling their obligations but we won out in the end. My guess is that they'd stonewall again but that we'd win if we pushed it. Hopefully this isn't something we need to take on for some time!
I probably won't buy a standby inverter but I likely will sound out Barclays now to see what their stance is vis a vis warranty. Id like to have that boxed off in advance of any future failure, particularly given their iniquitous stonewalling tactics. Good luck everyone!
When your inverter fails, obtain a replacement of the same model from your favourite online auction site, fit it or have it fitted, and recover the settings. Job done.
Got the pro version recently, did not realise this would simplify me replacing my inverter if the current one dies. Would the Gen1 settings transfer to a Gen2/3 replacement?
Thanks.
Rubikcube what would happen if you tried to go from a gen 1 to a gen 2 or 3?
Gen 1 and gen 2 settings should be the same. Gen 3 remember not to zero out the extra time slot limits.
All theoretical of course, I haven't actually tried replacing an inverter.
Certain things cannot be recovered, including the inverter model, firmware version, and modbus address. Currently the serial number isn't recovered, let's wait see what happens with the portal.
Personally, I would expect to run my AIO until it fails but next year I expect to want more capacity as an ashp is planned. I may well look at a Fox at that time. They seem to offer something broadly similar but with a control panel for local control.
What is really needed is someone to deal in second hand GE kit, tested and warranted as working. There will be a lot of kit available but who would buy second hand unless known to be in working order. My kit operates perfectly but if/when replaced it will likely be pretty much worthless.
Vestas NOT a good start for IKEA! And definitely use a credit card card
I wonder if that will put them off selling straight hardware like in Europe?
Judith No idea - it wouldn't even occur to me that Ikea sell anything other than meatballs and flatpack furniture 😃
If you didn't know anything about IKEA as a brand you would be surprised to know a furniture and homeware company sold meatballs and chocolate.
IKEA do sell lighting, kitchen appliances, smart home and other electronics - so solar is probably less wierd than the meatballs.
Vestas Personally I'd want something high voltage for efficiency. I did have a look when there were rumblings of GE disappearing and it looks like there is a very limited selection of more generic high voltage batteries, then a charger that can all be controlled locally, and at the capacity that I need. Very few modular options out there imo.
My current thoughts on what happens next is in the first instance, I will go to my installer to see what they can do for me, but ultimately I will likely replace it with another manufacturer's kit. I have already asked them what their mitigation will be if GE does not continue after the Administrators have concluded their role. Hopefully, my present installation will continue to work as it is now for years to come or at least until I have earned enough return to cover the costs.
We bought our system about 2yrs+ ago ,panels, inverter, battery and EV charger ,trying to do our bit for the country. We were never going to get back what we paid as we are into our late 70s and 80s,but we knew that. Alternatively we expected the system to be there for many years. It has been heart-breaking to follow you lads and lasses, knowing that we are unable to do much about it. All the abbreviations etc you use mean nothing to us.
We used a local installer thinking to keep things within the area, rather than use one of the many unknown national installers. He is now no longer trading.
We will just carry on and hope for the best
Keep up the good work because you all are really helping.
killythebid I have already asked them what their mitigation will be if GE does not continue after the Administrators have concluded their role
The problem all of us now have, is that the new kit could likley be with a less established manufacturer so the same risks will be there and trying to find a system where the whole thing can be fully run locally rather than via the cloud
Admitedly I'm a bit of a ludite,, but I don't see why the system needs to be so complex and tied to manufacturer.
Why can there not be a basic option whereby Inverter A B or C will connect with Battery X Y or Z, charge the battery and export excess to the grid. No frills and bells.
The concept is simple, why over-complicate the issue with incompatible software ?
IW Bit late to be asking questions like that.
Too right, but I took the advice of a well established installer, who fortunately is still in business - at the moment.
I've only been up and running since September 25, but anticipated trouble-free performance for many years.
Now it seems I'll be on a knife-edge, waiting for failure and knowing I'll probably need to replace the hardware when that happens.
IW Your installer must have been one of the last using GE - most had dumped them by last autumn. Oh well they're on the hook until at least 2031 for your system. I'd be keeping a very close eye on them were I you.
CW Quite so about non-cloud limitations of any replacement kit. It was/is one of the advantages of GE H/W that it will continue regardless of GE's cloud. I am less convinced about GE being more established than others, or at least if they were, it has been of no value given the current circumstances.
Other players in the field have been around at least as long as GE or not far off.
IW Why would a business do that when an open format that allows a lot of mix-and-match of products gives 3rd parties the ability to eat your lunch?
GE equipment was /is not a completely closed shop either. I know of people with solar panel controllers from one company a GE inverter and a battery, for instance. I also know of someone using Fogstar batteries with a GE Inverter.
Anyhow, all water under the bridge at this point.
killythebid I also know of someone using Fogstar batteries with a GE Inverter.
Is this documented anywhere?
@"ectoplasmosis"#p92311I doubt it, but I have seen the installation myself. I don't know how it was accomplished. I am not sure if it was with a GE inverter only or a hybrid.