Added a fan to the Inverter and it helps

This is absolutely not knocking Givenergy at all but my aim is to get a lifetime out the inverter and battery rather than a warranty time...
We all know the inverter has a huge passive cooling heatsink on the rear of it, this does a good job but it means that the inverter components are being warmed up. If I was a GivEnergy I would have never fitted a fan which is likely to breakdown over time.
There are hundreds of papers online about how temperatures age electronics if you care to research.

I fitted a 120mm USB powered fan, just sat underneath pointing upwards towards the fins.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32811613245.html was roughly what I have.

As a direct comparison, pumping 2Kw for 2 hours into the battery the temperatures monitored inside the inverter are 10 degrees lower (was 41 and now 31).

For the 1watt power consumption, it may prolong the life of the entire system.
Hope this helps someone

hamilton I absolutely agree with this - my inverter was cutting back the charge rate down quite dramatically (from 3kW down to about 1.2kW) when hitting about 64C in the summer. I fitted a set of aquarium fans (similarly just sat between the batteries and the inverter blowing up through the inverter fins) and the temp dropped to under 50C. I also added a timer so it only runs when I'm doing an AC charge. My motivation was longevity like you, but also I'm on a 3-hour Go Faster tariff and wasn't getting a full charge in 3h when it was doing this throttling back.

I think it would be nice to see an adaptive charge rate of some sorts. If for example, I wanted the battery to get to 100% in a 4 hour cheap rate window then it could automatically lower the charge rate so it completes on or around the 4 hour mark. So basically the higher the SOC it starts with, the slower it would charge.

After seeing this thread & other discussions concerning cooling the inverter, I bought a pair of 120mm USB fans:
120mm Fan USB Powered Fans Quiet computer cooling 5v Fan
These were good as they came as a pair, with rubber feet and a USB splitter lead included.
Connected up to a small USB phone charger and they worked a treat resting on top of the inverter heat sink.

Woodlands I want these but want to add them to a smart plug to only run on a schedule. But I guess leaving them on 24/7 wont matter.

THALL I want these but want to add them to a smart plug to only run on a schedule. But I guess leaving them on 24/7 wont matter.

I already have them plugged in via a smart plug, running on a schedule to match the times when the inverter is usually charging or discharging at higher rates.

I've just looked at my temperature history and it got upto 46'c yesterday. My battery is to the side of the inverter and not below it so that doesn't add to the load - if it does anyway.
Might add a switched fan though - I have a wireless Shelley switch on the shelf that I can use for it. Simple enough to control via Home Assistant and monitoring the heat sync temperatures.

@Woodlands - Just ordered the fans you linked - will be here later today 🙂

Woodlands

Hopefully once we can address smart plugs in the Invertor, it can be programmed to turn one on or off based on temperature

TheDragon (GivEnergy) I’m going to use a Shelley Switch driven off the temperature of the inverter. So can be done already.

Any recommendations on smart plugs to pair with the fans that have been linked? Quite like the idea of following others here and trying to draw the inverter temp down.

Just ordered some 4/3pin USB fan adapters and an extension lead, already have a couple of old PC 120mm fans that will be ideal.

Seeing temps around the mid 40s on the inverter today, seem to be down around 300w or so when looking at generation vs demand and export which could be down to the temps.

Just need a 3 pin plug power source in the roof, tempted to run it off the lighting ring main as the power required is tiny and the original ring was designed to support 60w lightbulbs not the LED ones currently installed.

Happy to just run the fans all the time at the moment, probably stick some inline fan speed control in for winter use or perhaps unplug 1 of the pair instead.

If you use something like a Shelley smart switch, it runs off the mains supply and is connected via wifi or bluetooth (The latter needs the app I think) and uses MQTT as well as being able to be scheduled on/off. I like the Plus 1PM but there are cheaper options from them available. https://shellystore.co.uk/shop/

Why not use a thermostatic controller like I did?

Decided to just leave ours on all the time at the moment & use the smart switch for something else more useful.
The fans use such a small amount of power that it is not worth switching them on & off depending on the temperature. It also means that when there is a large load on the inverter (charging or discharging) the heat sink starts from a lower temperature.

wilfleek In my case I have one lying around!

I've just put mine on - currently 24/7 - but only because I've not coded the temperature control yet. Dropped the temperature a couple of degrees already. Will see how it goes!

And is drawing 2.6W - the Shelley switch I have wired up happens to have power/energy monitoring on - but I will change it to a none monitored one when I get around to it.

How is everyone attaching their fans? I have the ones in the Amazon link above on their way.

Attaching? Are you meant to attach them? Mine are just dropped on top (They have rubber feet)

Yes, mine also just sit on top and suck air upward. Although I know that blowing is more efficient, you can see the temperature dropping quite rapidly when they are running from the readout on the digital thermostatic control.

anglefire Fair enough, I just thought it would be more efficient if they push the air up through the fins.

In this case, ANY forced air movement over the heatsink fins is good. The way I strapped fans to the vertical heatsink on my attic solar inverter would give a purist conniption fits, but it works.

anglefire
I use a shelly with the three thermo couples one wire addon, you can set a timed schedule or have it respond to temperature, great devices, also gives historical records of the temperatures.

Quick check in case anyone knows the answer before I go clambering around up in the loft, but does the 3.6 Hybrid inverter have a spare USB socket that I could use to run these? Obviously there's a USB socket on it for the wifi dongle but if there is a second spare I can just go ahead and order some fans before I go hunting.

I believe not.

Also not recommended to plug anything into that usb port other than the GE wifi adapter. Different power requirement etc.

Well that's annoying... not the end of the world though as there is also a fused switched 13A socket up there so I can still manage something. Would have been handy to have it onboard but still workable 🙂

Alternatively I could put a proper fan up there and simply have it on a timer switch... it'd certainly boost the airflow as it'd normalise the temperature across the whole loft.

Thanks for the responses anyway 😀

Fans installed and already making a huge difference, around 10 deg C drop this afternoon during heaving exporting to the grid.

I'd setup my automation incorrectly - so it didn't come on when it should have - so I manually enabled it and it dropped about 7K off the temperature.
Still running and is at about 31.5'C according to the heat sync sensor.

(Automation is now sorted too so should turn off below 20'C and back on at 22'C - may well have to adjust the settings but want to prove concept first)

anglefire have you set up automation using the inverter temp reading or a separate sensor?

Edit - should have said, I have zero knowledge of automation/coding/electrics etc…just a willingness to learn! I’m intrigued as to where to start. Obviously the easy option would be to simply leave fans running or on a timer. As I say, I’m intrigued.

I wasn't going to bother with cooling as my PV system isn't massive so the inverter doesn't get that hot during the day, but it will get up to around 50 on a night time charge so I thought I'd follow the pack. I bought these fans and luckily have a plug next to my inverter in the garage. I've got them plugged in to a kasa smart plug and I'm now controlling this via home assistant using the new api which allows me to pull in the inverter temperature and switch the fans on and off automatically. At the moment they are just balanced underneath the back of the inverter but I'd like to come up with a way to secure them properly.

c_squared I'm doing it via home assistant and the inverter temperature data thats pulled in via the local GivTcp app. There is no reason why it couldn't be done from the remote API calls as the switching on/off is over hours not minutes let alone anything closer than that!

Could the heatsink be mounted to a larger one (with some thermal post) to help transfer more heat away?
Loving the shared home brew fan hacks but wondered if there might be a passive solution.

LeiChat There is a passive solution - its the one on the back of the inverter! To be fair its designed to work within the parameters stated - the additional fans is probably going to do a little bit but not significant. Unless they are getting near the limits without.

My inverter reached 46c today charging from solar. My install is on a south facing wall which i've only just realised may give me an issue.

I bought the fan off Amazon and I have a spare (large battery pack) which I can use until I get a socket fitted.

To automate it i bought this https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B082V85K7F?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_FEF4T7N1BFE6AW6ABF4Q and just hope it will work ok.

mjkelly5a The installation manual says not to install in direct sunlight. I'd be concerned about voiding the warranty through incorrect installation.

stevelewis It was an accredited installer. I'll contact him.

mjkelly5a I now have both the fans and the above SONOFF smart unit installed. It's an incredible bit of kit for controlling the USB fan.

I can program it by time, sunset, sunrise but even more useful is telling Alexa to turn it off and on. Used it this morning and and saw the inverter temp drop 2c in 10 minutes. Its on a large battery at the moment but I'll get a socket fitted.

I also have a Govee Home temperature measurement device and that operates on both bluetooth and WiFi. So I can see the ambient temperature around the equipment.

I have been intrigued by all this discussion. So I looked at my inverter data.

I am on GO 00:30 to 04:30 with two 8.2 Kwh batteries and an AC3.0 inverter. When the batteries start charging they are at 25 degC and pull 3 Kw, but this stays constant even as the temp increases to 57 degC.

So I am thinking that a fan would not change anything. My max PV output is nearly 4Kw and in the daytime, the inverter sends 3Kw to the batteries when its temp is 45 degC.

Any views on this, please?

Are you looking at battery or onverter temperature? It is the latter I felt worth controlling, to help extend the life of the electronics. I haven't seen my own batteries getting much above 25C, but the inverter was far higher than that.

Agreed, it's not the battery temperature, it's the inverter that can get in to the 50s. Now I have fans on mine it doesn't go above the low 30s. I also agree that it already has the passive cooling built in but it's a really cheap add on to try to get the longest life from the system.

wilfleek Yes, I was looking at the inverter, but now I realise that we are chasing different objectives. You are rightly concentrating on electronic longevity.

I had read in a post somewhere that a hot inverter seemed to reduce the charge or discharge rate. In my case, the charge rate from GO was constant regardless of the temperature (up to 57degC, at least). This is probably the correct design response. I was hoping to squeeze a bit more out of GO (at 5p) by keeping the inverter cooler. But now I am happy to leave everything as GE designed it.

Many thanks for your replies.

I think it a certainty that in extremis, too much temperature would lead an inverter to "throttle" throughput, to protect itself. I don't know what specific temperature this might happen at though.

I never knew the sonoff micro existed, I've just bought 2 to automate my fans a bit better.
My solar edge inverter only needs to be on during day time and the AC inverter can be put into standby some of the time aswell.
I love the sonoff systems and have converted 3 radiators into smart radiators.

My fans are perfectly "automated" with zero intervention needed from myself - with a good old fashioned remote-sensing thermostatic switch. That's smart enough for me.

Like this: KETOTEK Digital Thermostat Plug Temperature Controller Socket Outlet 220V with Sensor Probe - from Amazon.

wilfleek The specific inverter temperature is about 65C - the inverter throttles back from 2.9kW to about 1.2kW (I have an AC3.0) When it cools to about 61C, it goes back to full charge. With a high enough ambient temperature (I saw it last July) it will cycle like this every 10-15 minutes when on full charge - this is why I bought my fans, but I'm also in agreement that it will help longevity.

Thanks for that info Andrew

MRich I built/adaped a USB plug for a friend, who has installed it into their EPS output, and it provides the 5v for a USB fan pair. About £5 to buy and 10 minutes to adapt.

wrefordj I believe that at 57 degrees you are at the cusp of throttelling... It starts at around 57 degrees! At 60 degrees it is abut 2/3rds and at 65 degrees 1/5th.

anabanet Thanks for that. My inverters and batteries are in the garage which might get a bit hotter in the summer, but then the solar PV will probably be sufficient so I don't need so much from GO.
I shall keep an eye on it though. This Forum is so useful for exchanging useful information and tips. I'm so glad I didn't go for a Tesla setup!

Looking at my inverter (5.0 hybrid) temperature today, it peaked at 49°C about 15 minutes ago, and is now dropping and currently is at 45.6°C.

I am presuming that this is because it was charging the battery AND exporting to the grid and supplying the house demand up to the peak temperature, but has now started to drop since the battery is at 100% and is now only exporting to the grid and supplying the house demand.

I am going to keep an eye on what happens for a few days as the battery was at around 50% when it started to charge so only took around 90 minutes to reach 100%. If the battery had been at say 25% then the battery charge period would have been longer and therefore the temperature may have gone higher.

I really would like to get some cooling installed on my 3 AC3s but all of your solutions seem to rely on sorting out home assistant and the APIs and stuff and frankly I don;t even know where to start with that and I don;t recall seeing a nice easy to follow "do this, then this" guide.

dbt85 sounds like I was in a similar place. I went the east route, bought a Kasa smart plug, the fans from Amazon and put them on a timer rather than anything fancy like inverter temp.

I am doing the same as above. TP link smart plug has an option to come on during daylight hours. So getting a socket installed near the AC3, got a smart plug, got a usb plug, got the usb fans. I will just use the daylight hours only mode.

dbt85 don’t over think things, get a machine style fan (120mm usb powered is ideal).
Put it under the inverter pointing upwards.
If you can feel a breeze it’s working.

After that you can add smart plugs etc. a fan like those will use around 5 watts. A smart plug is closer to 1-2 so it’s not a massive saving automating it.

You can look at the inverter temperature online and you will see a difference before and after fan.

I run a quad of USB fans on the top of the heatsink of my Hybrid 3.6 permanently running and it seems to be keeping the temperature from spiking too much. I did previously have two of them sat below the inverter atop the battery sink but drawing the air up and away from the inverter seems to work fine, and using all of them up there means I have a full width of ventilation over the sink vanes. It still runs hot enough that I'm considering going a bit further though. I'm currently tossing up the idea of sticking a large floor fan up in the loft aimed at the bottom of the inverter and running on a smart switch. It'd have the added benefit of introducing some air circulation up there which would be of benefit for the loft in general.

I suppose I could just go the easy route of just having a usb fan or similar just running, or on a smart/timed plug as suggested. Ours are in rooms but not in a loft where I imagine ambient temps would be far higher in even mild days.

I really do need to work out wtf I need to do with the local control and API stuff tbh.

Easy enough to automate without going the API route: https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/267-extra-inverter-cooling

Ive just added 2 x 120mm 12v fans to my inverter. Underneath, blowing upwards. 120mm seems to fit snuggly wedged behind the DC input and AC input covers.

Need to find a more permanent frame that can be attached.
@givenergy Missing a trick here. Inverters need fans in this extreme heat. Warranty or not, it cant be healthy running at 60C+

most have a short warranty now. They should have an output for a fan which would be an optional fitment and only offer a 1 year warranty.