Does anyone actually have a Gen2 inverter yet?
In June I was lead to believe that Gen1 Inverters were no longer being made and Gen2 inverters would be available from August. Now it seems Gen1 inverters are still being delivered and Gen2 inverters might not be available until February.
Anyone know what is going on?
Just had a 5kw hybrid inverter (gen 2) installed five days ago, so certainly coming through ...!
alphabeta77 Thank you, that is very reassuring. How long ago did you order it? And did you specifically ask for gen2 on the order?
Having been on here a year ago, and eventually giving up on getting information on the Gen2, so going the tesla route we find ourselves shafted by an installer who lied about having everything in stock.
We're having to start all over again, with an expectant wife and trying to get anything we can before we can't have work done on the house. As such we are looking at the Giv Hy2 and 9.5 or 2x9.5 as the solution.
Like the OP, I'd be really interested in finding out how long from order to delivery and installation things are taking.
As it stands we've had to cancel our EV, because without solar and a charger, it just can't be run.
If a solar system takes so long it's not going to be installed until after baby comes, then it's going to be impossible to do, which would be really upsetting.
Still we've been led up the garden path by an installer before (they were GE installer who pushed us down the tesla route as it was in stock*) so it would be great to know what people are really seeing from time of order to install.
*my a**e it was.
I have been waiting for a Gen2 5kw Hyb Inv and 9.5kwh Battery for a long time and installer update today now suggests inverter in Oct and battery Jan 23.
Jon-boy Thank you for posting the info, my installer also says October for the inverter. Installers are just passing on what they are told, which may not be accurate.
Rubikcube I put in an order for 2xHybrid 3.6 + 2x8.2Kw batteries+12xJinko 400W panels at the end of February. There were a number of delays with assorted kit but the one that really pushed things back was the Jinko panels which were scheduled for UK arrival this month. Based on that delay I asked the installer to change the inverters to Gen 2 and the batteries to 9.5kW. They were very cooperative and changed the contract accordingly.
Last week they rolled up with the gen2 inverters and the 9.5kW batteries came on friday. Still waiting on Jinko panels which wholesaler now promises here on the 22nd September. So all in all its worked out reasonably, I've got the latest kit and the panels I wanted (25 year warranty) albeit with quite a delay. I think the industry has been suffering a lot of capacity problems, which seem to be clearing out now, but GE takes the biscuit for not telling anyone anything, pretty poor customer interaction. Installers get my sympathy being stuck in the middle getting no info from GE and being harassed for answers by their customers.
BarryForde That's great news Barry, thanks for posting. Good things come to those who wait!
When you say "they rolled up", did they just call the day before and say its coming tomorrow, or how much notice did they give you?
Have you got the cables (for connecting the batteries to the inverters)? Does the gen2 inverter still have the ring connectors or is it a plug and socket like the battery?
Hope your install goes smoothly.
Rubikcube No they behaved themselves and contacted me a couple weeks in advance to agree the date. Then the day before the scaffolders landed and put up the scaffolding. The next day the installers came as promised and mounted the inverters on the wall put the mounting rails on the roof ready for the panels and did some electrical work to get things ready. As I have an electric garage door opener I wanted to run the garage kit from the EPS outputs so they also installed a new earthing rod ready for that. So far so good ....
The next day they turned up with the 9.5kW batteries and stacked them against the wall, I just been out and checked and they have indeed arrived with the correct cables and these are wired into the inverters (looks like ring connectors) and the plug for the battery end is dangling ready to be connected. So extra points there to the installers.
Then they started a dialogue with GE which resulted in them getting cold feet about a dual hybrid installation and paused for me to talk to GE about how to wire things. Talk to GE ha ha ha, but I've emailed support a schematic of how I want it done and maybe they will answer sometime. But from my reading of all the blogs looks like a dual installation normally works ok so long as its wired as two completely seperate systems each with its own CT/EM115 wired seperately, which is what I've specified. Not trying a master/slave model with inverters linked via modbus. Now the installer is a bit worried about using 2 LoRa links to bring the EM115 RS485 interfaces out to the inverters in the garage. As the panels are not due till the 22nd we have time in hand to resolve things. Its nothing I'm worried about but I may have to agree with the installers that if they do it my way any problems are mine.
Its all good fun this solar/battery stuff isnt it...
There should be no problem with the LoRa units, even as supplied in their default configuration. Just use A1 and B1 for one inverter/meter, A2 and B2 for the other. One pair of LoRa units support two independant RS485 channels.
Having said that, I gave up on the LoRa units because there was simply too poor a signal path between my cupboard-under-the-stairs and my workshop down the garden, where the panels and inverter are. But I had an available CAT5 cable already between those locations, so that's what's in use now.
mrand31 Hi, thats interesting because the dual RS485 channels of a single LoRa was what I originally thought I 'd use. However the latest LoRa units are different to last years version and only support a single RS485 link. Against that the new ones do follow ETSI specs and have three channels which can be programmed easily from the front panel. So I can use 433.175Mhz (Ch1) for one inverter link and 433.375Mhz (Ch2) for the second link. Without any risk of interference I should be fine. But a bit worrying your experience of performance over your link. I'm linking my main consumer unit in the house to the garage, about 50m line of sight distance but a couple of walls in between. I guess the answer is that if it works then fine if not my plan B is to run a cat5 from the consumer unit EM115s round the outside of the house to the front wall and link from there avoiding digging up the drive. Distance would be reduced to about 20m with only one wall between which should work. As the wiring for my EV charger will need installing along the same route as my charge point is going there anyway I'll get them to put in an additional cat5 cable for this eventuality.
Its interesting that the LoRa foundation claim an 8km range in urban environments so GE are right to expect your/mine systems to work.
kram
Name and shame - I've had a similar experience recently.
BarryForde Sorry have to ask are you Barry Forde former CEO of B4RN?
Kryten Guilty as charged....
Once I've got my quotes for a GE system and everything installed I will, but they're approximately based around Plymouth. I noticed that the company who had a good trustpilot rating are rapidly falling.
If you're curious you can PM me the name of your company and I'll confirm if they match.
The EV was formally rejected today due to lack of solar and we are now debating if we even bother with solar at all.
I know for a fact that we are not the only people thinking this following updates etc.
Right now, the price for solar kit with 20% VAT we had before, is now approx 50% cheaper than the new price without VAT. The industry only has itself to blame for a combination of bad sales tactics, bad pre-sale and bad post sales and jacking up the prices far more than the costs have gone up.
Can't seem to PM you - likely a different company as mine are based in Leeds ( platinum installer!) Without naming correctly it's the opposite of
Last4solar
BarryForde Good to hear and thanks for what you helped build. I was one of the people doing the build for LEWFA. About to have a Solar install with 3 x GE AC inverter and 3 x 9.5kWh battery plant installed in the next month.
Kryten Its been a great project, thanks for helping, now at about 12,000 connections and still growing!
Interesting setup you going for with 3xsystems. How many panels and what capacity? I was limited by roof size to 12 panels.
Kryten By the way I've been having a discussion with Givenergy about my dual hybrids and they confirm my plan should be ok subject to occasional data reading anomalies. More interestingly they confirm a new box is under development to allow more than one hybrid to be used in parallel. No date or any other details but it is a standalone box fix not a firmware upgrade.
BarryForde Dual Hybrids are fine and don't need an Energy Management System box alongside, unless you want to do something different with your plant. I too was concerned before installation about hybrids fighting each other. My scenario was one where load suddenly appeared (someone switched the oven on) and the inverters started to ramp up then overshot, causing an export, then one inverter reduces output causing an apparent increase in demand, causing the other to ramp up and overshooting, causing the first to ramp down etc etc until, finally, the load was being fed from one inverter with the other just lazing by.
In fact, the response time and ramp gradient for the hybrids is such that (at least my two) both reach the demanded output at pretty much the same time and then ramp down gracefully at the same. The two hybrids are identical with identical PV and batteries and connected to the same "solar" consumer unit which is connected (via MCS Meter) to the house consumer unit. Other than the 240Vac connections, they know nothing of each other yet their battery SoC is always within 5-8% and the inverter output is always within a few hundred Watts, irrespective of load.
A faster response time on the hybrids would reduce my grid import of 0.5-1kWh/day but this is a miniscule price to pay for a plant that is extremely stable, reliable and does everything I could want. AC-coupled is another matter but that was never an issue for us with PV being the main driver.
Tim Having read your previous posts and some others I was quite happy things would work fine, thanks for your very helpful input! It was my installer who was nervous. But anyway its all fine with GE so good to continue with install.
What I'm interested in with the integration box is a clean up of the EPS side of things. As it stands its not possible to link the EPS outputs of hybrid inverters ( I guess its the same with AC units!). So I have two hybrids but for EPS can only use one and settle for 3.6kW or do all sorts of messing about with my consumer unit to split the loads etc. which I dont want to do. Especially as the kit is in the garage and the main consumer unit in the house so would need to dig up my drive and front of house.
I'm hoping that as part of the integration work they will also enable the EPS of two units to run in parallel giving me 7.2kW. As the switch over is <20ms this would give me a whole house UPS. Of course that may not be in their roadmap but one can always hope!
My units are going on the garage, is it not possible to run one EPS, in my case, to for the garage, gym and outside electric requirements and the other to the house?
94jdh You can run the EPS anywhere you want, you just need to install the right cables. If you have two inverters in your garage, it might be useful to connect both to a single consumer unit there and then connect that CU through your MCS meter to the house CU using a larger cable. You'd then need another cable to bring the EPS supply into the house. Don't forget to install two or three STP cat5/6 ethernet cables for your EM115s and LAN services to the garage. You may not need LAN now but if you install and EV charger later, you'd benefit from sufficient twisted pairs to connect CTs to.
Tim one CU per EPS circuit?
I didn't think they play nicely together? Not synced.
94jdh Basically the answer is yes. But the problem is the available power levels. 3.6kW may be enough for the garage/gym etc but its thin pickings for your house load. You could manually turn off anything of significant load before switching to the EPS, but even turning on a kettle will take you well into the available power so its not very practical. If you just wanted lights but no ring mains should be ok.
Most of the alternative inverter manufacturers seem to be at 6-8kW output which is enough. Two GE hybrids linked gives you 7.2kW and that should be fine. But you still need to think about what you turn on if you are cooking diner! (oven 6kW peak, hob 2-3kW and so on, it mounts up quickly.
TX200 one CU per EPS circuit?
One CU for the main inverter AC connections that synchronise to grid. Each EPS will have to supply its own islanded socket/consumer unit.
For what it's worth it looks like many Gen 2s HY 5s are now delayed until at least Jan, with their production not expected to ramp up until Gen 1 stops sometime in November.
sungrad I think Gen1 production has now stopped, however there are still a large number of Gen1 inverters in transit from China which will arrive in the UK during October and November. The timescale for Gen2 inverters is less clear.
The terms Gen1 and Gen2 appear to be causing some confusion. My definition is Gen1 inverters are rectangular, Gen2 inverters are rounded.
No, they current look the same apart from gen2 having built in WiFi and an ethernet port. The rounded ones will likely follow at some point.
The currently available inverters (and the ones due next month), are oblong with built in wifi and an ethernet port. Some people are calling them Gen1 whilst others are calling them Gen2. Maybe we should refer to them as Gen1.5 😄 Real Gen2 inverters, with the new battery connector and new casing, are what I am waiting for.
I'm not worried about the aesthetics as long as I get the updated charge and discharge capacity. I've been told my 2 x 9.5s are now in hand and available for my planned installation date next month. Fingers crossed!
sponev Tuesday is fast approaching for me....
94jdh I know! Fingers crossed and looking forward to a positive conclusion. Been a long wait.
I have just been notified of a 2nd delay for my 5kW Gen2 hybrid (probably now described as Gen1.5).
Ordered at the beginning of June 2022, 1st install date early September = delayed, 2nd install date early November = delayed, new predicted delivery is the end of Jan 2023 (which matches what Midsummer are reporting for new orders).
I have just given my installer the nod to proceed with panel install, plus at my extra cost a basic non-battery capable inverter in order get some generation whilst waiting for the GivEnergy inverter. The idea is that once the Gen2 turns up, the inverter plus battery will be installed and the 2nd inverter will then be freed up (possibly for sale). I should be able to soak up a good proportion of the solar generation using my Zappi for PHEV/EV charging and Eddi for the immersion heater.
Midsummer do seem to have regular availability of the 5kW Gen1 Hybrid and the 3kW AC-coupled inverters. I may consider the Gen1 Hybrid, but would not be happy with dropping from 3.6 kW to 2.6 kW peak load from the battery or the loss of the LAN connectivity.
Simon_C So frustrating isn't it! It's tempting to go down your route, it wouldn't be so bad if we actually had a date that didn't keep getting pushed back...& back!
With hindsight I wish I had chosen this route (with the stop-gap inverter) back in early September when my installer already had the panels and the booked time slot.
The stop-gap inverter would have paid for itself by mid March, based on 41p/kWh daytime and 75% self consumption.
As it is, the panels are on the roof today, and the electrician is scheduled for Thursday to complete with the stop-gap inverter from stock at the wholesaler.
It will now take until the end of April to fully pay for itself, assuming I do not get some resale value when the GivEnergy inverter (with associated battery) actually gets delivered and installed in it's place.
Simon_C I would be interested to find out which basic non-battery inverter you would get installed, you do make a good point and worth considering with a possible resale value of the old inverter.
I have literally just got a Solax X1-3.6-T installed in the last couple of hours, with the grand total of 0.1 kWh generated before it went dark. It has 2 string inputs unlike some of the lower rated inverters from Solax.
It was a balancing act choosing between kW rating, price and availability. The Gen 2 on order is the 5 kW hybrid, and the 3.6 kW stop-gap will cope with my panels over the Winter especially with the East/West orientation. In theory on a perfect day in May/June/July, my panels could output around 4.9 kW between 1200 and 1400 BST.
The 5kW Solax was significantly more expensive, and was not as readily available.
It came with a Pocket WiFi dongle which is now configured, but no CT or meter to monitor the grid. I already have a MyEnergi Zappi EV charger with grid CT, and DNO approval for up to 5kW export, so not too bothered about that.
Simon_C Many thanks, will that cause any problems regarding documents ie G99 when you finally get the GEN 2 and it's commissioned?
hi folks - i had a system installed Friday and was meant to get a gen 2 invertor but they installed a gen 1 - the main downside for me is that gen 1 can only charge/discharge battery at 2600kwh versus 3700 with the gen 2.. asking the installer to swap out the invertor for gen 2 but i suspect ill be waiting for a while if they agree..
michaelmcgoldrick What did you order? If gen 2 they are contracted to supply you with one when they are available. If they installed a gen 1 without discussing, that's on them.
I have a gen 1 going in as a stop gap next month with an agreement (and cash withheld) until the gen 2 goes in. Like you gen 1 gets me going but the whole system is designed for a gen 2. Frankly the supply side with the kit is awful.
I asked for a gen 2 when I booked my installation back in September.. they quoted me for a 8.2kw battery.. but they actually installed a 9.5kw which is a win for me.. I've emailed them which hopefully they will pick up tomorrow..I've paid 50 percent up front so will be looking for the gen 2. I also asked for a socket for backup power supply and electrician didn't have a socket with him Friday so I'm asking for them to come back to do that as well. Haven't paid the remaining 50 percent and will be seeing what they will do before doing so. Seems unlikely I'll get a gen 2 before January but that's ok if they guarantee they will refit then for me..
spoke to installer this morning - they agreed to swap over my invertor when they can get a gen 2 but they think it could be well into next year.. im ok with that.. they said to hold back 500 euro of payment until its done.. they did mention they have installed a few gen2 and they have given issues.. but that was probably more a sales pitch to make me feel happier with the gen 1.. anyway happy with the result.. at least im up and running until the gen 2 becomes available..
michaelmcgoldrick Thanks - let us know how you get on with the GEN 1, also do you have it in writing they will replace the GEN 1 for the 2?
GBISLT No he has it in the bank.
michaelmcgoldrick they said to hold back 500 euro of payment until its done
94jdh we also used that firm - wasn't the best experience in the world but we got there in the end.......
6 months and a few installer visits later......
michaelmcgoldrick
I think we have the same installer, and yes, I had specifically requested a Gen2 and was given a Gen1.
They say that the Gen2 can't be obtained at present, and that they've had problems with early units.
But they have also agreed to swap out the Gen1 for a Gen2 when available, in 2023.
I'm "on the list" I'm told, so there must be a few of us.
Let's keep in touch on this, thanks!
anyone seeing more of gen 2 invertors in the supply chain? my installer quoted me feb/march 2023.. but im hoping its a little sooner
Apparently not until mid January at the earliest
94jdh I just wonder how many GEN 2 Inverters will be shipped and available against all of those that are currently waiting. Not forgetting going forward into 2023 those not on the waiting list yet?.
Our installer has said that they have had "nothing but trouble" with the Gen 2 inverters, and have replaced several with Gen 1.
Is this just a way to make us feel better about having received a Gen 1 instead of the Gen 2 that we ordered, or is there something to it?
GBISLT Good question. Ours was ordered early April so hopefully we're somewhere near the front of the queue. Our installation is supposed to be next week using a gen 1 and then a promised retrofit of the gen 2 when they arrive. At least that will get us moving although it pretty much makes the second battery redundant. The charge rate is too low on gen 1 to fully exploit the cheap rate on Octopus Go.
We have also been promised a retrofit, so I think we'll assume that by the time they get to us, any problems will have been ironed out!
To be honest, we're going fine with the Gen 1, as we have a single 5.2kW battery for the moment....
simondoyle I hope he's wrong as our whole system design leverages on the increased charge/discharge capacity of the gen 2. Hopefully not another mess in the offing.
As another poster above said, of the same installer...
they did mention they have installed a few gen2 and they have given issues.. but that was probably more a sales pitch to make me feel happier with the gen 1.
So I think / hope it should be okay!
Hi folks,
Any update on gen 2 invertor supply? I see givenergy have added the two gen2 versions to the product page. If offered either which is the best one to get?
Cheers,
Mick
michaelmcgoldrick I don't know the answer but on a good note they are now G99 compliant as of end of 2022, we can only hope to see them available soon.
Hello - has anyone received any recent info from suppliers/installers on this? I understand from my installer this will be early Feb, but read something on the Facebook group page from a customer stating April!
Does anyone have anything more concrete?
Maybe something from Givenergy? @GeorgeRawding
Just heard from our suppliers that the September that moved to October that moved to December that moved to January has moved to April.......
They're losing their patience with Givenergy and are pointing to competitors now as an alternative.
@GeorgeRawding Any colour or detail you can give on this would be appreciated given it really doesn't appear anyone's got these Gen2 inverters yet - are these just continual supplier issues or defects in builds?
Given we're now pushing into the spring/summer period, it means solar generation is going to start to be hit pretty hard...
I spoke with Givenergy yesterday lunchtime and they told me the Gen 2 inverters arrive in the UK at the end of Jan - also said that they will be in the curved cases…
Are they the ones for EON...........😏
94jdh Joking aside, if that rumour is accurate, there will be hell on. Plus it will be pretty easy to find out with a couple of posts on a few forums. Giv aren't daft enough to do that surely?
Not heard that rumour - not even sure I want to if that’s all it is!
I've heard of it before, but it could be the same origin - that's the problem with the web, I think it was quickly shutdown by someone from Givenergy previously - but as they say, no smoke without a fire.....
94jdh Hopefully it's innacurate but like you, having ordered ten months ago and then finding you've been shoved backwards in the queue wouldn't be clever. Particularly as my system was designed around gen 2 and is currently hobbled. But the temporary gen 1 is certainly better than nothing. No doubt we'll find out in the coming weeks.
Spoke with my installer yesterday and he is expecting 'Gen 1.5' (that's what he's calling the Gen 2 that has the glass front and looks pretty much like a Gen 1) at the beginning of February and I think he said April for the plastic faced Gen 2. Functionality is the same according to him and also on the GE website (both are pictured there). Personally, I think the glass faced one is better looking, but that's not really the important in the garage! Would be nice to hear from GE that they are EXACTLY the same spec inside - one has to wonder why they changed the design if nothing else was changed ...
phoenix Both the Flat and Curved GEN 2 Inverters are on the GivEnergy Web site, suggest you download the datasheet for detailed information.
Gen1.5 and Gen 2.0 are the same inside. The curved cast version incorporates the big aluminium heatsink as part of the case and is probably cheaper to produce than separate fabricated case and heat sink. Confirmed by GE engineer during recent visit.
Nice one, thanks for the info, couldn't find that on the datasheets 😉
sounds like the one with the bigger heat sink might be the one to go for. im currently on gen 1 - gen 2 coming when available.. installer swapping them.. and told me to hold back portion of payment. till its done. i might wait for the curved one.. ive heard gen 2 so far as had fair few issues.. although that was from my installer who probably wanted me to settle for gen 1...
There is a very significant number of gen 2 flat fronts inbound going to wholesalers this month and rolling in continuously after. They are the same as the round cornered model previously shown except for the difference in the connectors underneath.
Thats good news.
But you're datasheets on the website which were recently added suggest the curved unit has a higher spec than the flat front unit.
For example:
Max input per string. Flat = 11A Curved = 13A
Norminal Voltage Range. Flat = 230 to 270v Curved = 180 to 270v
Backup Terminal output power. Flat = 3600w Curved = 5000w
Max Output Current. Flat = 16a Curved = 21.7a
Weight. Flat = 27.5kg Curved = 32kg
Are the datasheets wrong, or are Givenergy fobbing people off saying they are the same?
Haddock interested in this question.. I'm.getting a gen 2 when they available.. but question is which one..
Haddock
The other spec issue of concern between the curved and flat front units datasheets is battery charge rate.
The GEN2 flat front DS quotes Max battery charge current as 65A (discharge is 81A) which @50V doesn't match up to the quoted 3600W max discharge power (65A * 50V = 3250W) and fall a fair way short.
The GEN2 curved front DS quotes 80A bi-directional
Now I have seen hybrid 3600W battery charge power levels on the demo portal 18 months ago so I have a feeling this is a typo (maybe someone with a flat front GEN2 can confirm), but hardly installs confidence that the GEN2 flat vs curved front units are identical in performance and some clarification is needed.
Gen 2 flat hybrid is 3.6kw ac discharge and charge. I have been told this may be increased to 4kw in the future and Gen 2 flat and curved are identical inside. Maybe curved will be supplied with this uprated spec (all software controlled).
anthonypar So the datasheet for the GEN2 flat front is inconsistent then 🙁
I have a feeling this is just a not well designed data sheet and looks like they are using the charge/discharge voltage boundaries on the Flat front (46.7 x 81A & 57.6V x 65A as opposed to a fixed voltage on the curved one.
OR - It's just wrong...
GE are well known for not having particularly accurate datasheets (i.e 5.2 battery packs) - one standout here is the flat front has a nominal battery voltage listed as 48V. There has never been a 48V nominal Givenergy battery, they are all 51.2V nominal packs (hence why any size Gen 1 or 2 battery fits all inverters & other battery packs together)
They are however still listed the same way on the actual inverter (Flat Front G2 pictured):
Note: There are rumours of the Curved front inverter is never going to see the light of day. Don't shoot the messenger, just something an installer with good connections has mentioned.
Below is part of a discussion with Sandy Leonard regarding Wi-Fi Dongle issues, statement from George Rawding about 4 days ago:
"I appreciate how irritating stock levels have been, but we’ve got nearly 3000 Gen 2’s coming in over the next month, with more on the way."
I keep checking Midsummer and the numbers that will be available is up and down like a roll-a-coaster and the dates change from February to March.
How far will circa 3000 go? If I get one in Feb I would class that as good as winning on the lottery 😄
It is 13A on PV for both versions, the datasheet says 11A but this was modified through firmware version 904-904 for Gen 2's and can now support 13A on all Gen 2 models - I will get this passed across to the teams that develop the datasheets.
Nominal voltage is just worded differently, but is the same answer as its UK grid 230V.
Backup power, again - I think this is just how its worded, any 5KW inverter can technically do 5KW on the backup power side, but its not advised because the battery in either circumstance can only support 3.6KW and you should not overload the inverters max output it can provide. I'll clarify this again with the teams on the datasheet.
The max output current again relates to the above surrounding backup power.
Weight I would imagine to be different, the curved fronts have a metal front casing instead of the clear Perspex cover on the flat front (similar to the gen 1 models)
Thanks for raising this - I'll pass that back internally
athresuk I have a pair of flat front Gen2 units, installed October, each paired with a 9.5Kw Battery. I charge the batteries overnight on ECO7 rates and discharge them during the day. Looking at the actual charge/discharge data its clear that the charge peak limit is around 3200W whilst the discharge is around 3600W. So flat front units are 65A/81A as per the data sheet.
I have to say the 3200W charge rate is in no way a problem for me. ECO7 has 7 hours in which to charge and I need <4hours. I'm looking to shift to Intelligent Octopus when my EV finally arrives (long saga!) and thats 6 hours so still ok. Nothing else on the flat front versus the curved front differences looks an issue to me.
Only problem I have is with the batteries frequently deciding to transfer charge between themselves. Overall its not a problem as I still seem to have over 18kW to use daily but there is clearly some inefficiency there. I'm waiting patiently for the new EMS box which should sort that.
BarryForde
I've not had the issue of one charging the other, strange how some do and some don't?
My system design relies on 3.6kw for charge and discharge so I won't be happy if that isn't delivered. I have copies of the data sheets against which I placed the order, so hopefully it represents the equipment accurately.
only have 2 hours lowest electric rate here so ideally want to charge as fast as possible.. anyone getting 3600 watts battery charging on gen 2?
94jdh Yes it is very strange but GivEnergy have always said that dual hybrids will behave oddly but the EMS box will sort it out so I'm happy with what I've got. Portal and App readings are pretty weird sometimes too but digging down I can see all is well.
When I first put my order in it was for gen1 kit which was all that was offer and that was 2600w charge/discharge which wasnt enough which is why I went with dual hybrids. However my installers were very good and agreed to change gen1 to gen2 and the batteries from 8.2 to 9.5 ones at minimal extra cost. Reading all the problems others have had with their installers I have to give mine a thumbs up for that. Of course with the gen2 being 3200 or 3600W charge I could have got away with a single inverter and charged the 9.5 battery in the window but I decided to stick with 2 hybrids to give me 7200w discharge to provide house backup, once the new box appears. GE say Q1 but not which year!
BarryForde I'm also going to have the EMS when it becomes available - my installer was the same, gen1 inverters swapped out to gen2 when available, already have 2 x 9.5kWh batteries installed.
BarryForde Hmmm, do you have a battery charge plots for your GEN2 flat front showing the 3200W over an extended time period?
@Adam-Reynolds You didn’t specifically answer the battery charge discrepancy for DC current vs AC power for the flat front hybrid, the data sheet quoting max 3600W AC battery charge rate could well actually be just a peak level while in reality the unit actually only delivers 3200W AC charge rate typical which aligns with the DC 65A charge current stated in the data sheet and also the levels seen by Barry.
If this is the case then the flat front unit is not the same as the curved front (assuming the curved can charge at AC 3600W as per the 80A DC spec) and may end up with you/installers having a bunch of unhappy customers who after waiting months for what they thought were GEN2 curved only to be swapped for GEN2 flat front units with lower performance. This is especially important for customers on GO with large battery configs.
So can you clarify if the flat front units can deliver typical 3600W charge current (@20C battery temperature) to the battery(s) as that would be very helpful, thanks.
dhb666 Exactly! This is important to clarify. As I noted earlier, my system performance is planned around 3.6 charge and discharge - anything less will be unacceptable. So we need to know before any installation. Getting something that doesn't meet spec nearly a year after ordering would be dismal. Hopefully we're worrying unnecessarily but it needs clarifying please.
My Gen 2 flat front delivers 3.6kw (3.5kw in reality).
anthonypar Brilliant, someone on the forum with another flat front GEN2, however, is that charge or discharge for the battery?
The data sheet and circumstantial evidence from @BarryForde indicate that battery charge is only AC 3200W 65A DC (battery discharge looks to be 3600W AC 80A DC). You wouldn’t happen to have a charge plot by any chance as it would be nice to see the charge curve, FW dependant of course.
As @sponev said above we may well be chasing a ghost here but the DS and user quoted battery charge rates for the GEN2 flat front hybrid appears to be less than the curved front unit so some clarification from @Adam-Reynolds would be very useful to prevent another potential PR disaster and unhappy customers.
I have a customer waiting to swap out a GEN1 for a GEN2 due to the battery charge rate and the above discrepancy on the flat front hybrid would be a big issue 🙁
I think you’ve already mentioned it but bear in mind the new beta firmware appears to have all sorts of charge rate quirks/limitations based on temperatures as well.
hoggy indeed, I have asked for a clarification of the charge rate with the battery @ 20C
Mine will charge and discharge at 3.6kw.
anthonypar thanks for the update much appreciated, it would be great if you could post an plot image of your GEN2 flat front charging the battery at 3.6kW, a plot would probably make a few forum members very happy and put this thread element to bed 🙂
athresuk It would, but also official confirmation from Giv would be simple enough? There are a number of reasons to be skeptical including my temporary gen 1 charging at 2.4 - no explanation from Giv.
sponev
Mine also charges at 2.4kW for reference.
Yes, the charge and discharge rate is 3.6KW, they are exactly the same inverters minus the connections on the bottom, and the front casing. You may see a little less than 3.6KW as we show bat power as DC before conversion loss however.
94jdh My request to them for an explanation went unanswered. I'll try again and also try to get an official answer for the gen 2 versions. Hanging a retrofitted gen 2 on the wall and getting less than the specified charge/discharge rate won't cut it, so we need some form of guarantee upfront. They should know how their kit performs and not some nominal value.
Adam-Reynolds Thank you, beat me to the post. Please see above - why does my gen 1 charge at 2.4 please and another guy on here with a gen 2 charging at 3.2? Thanks
Adam-Reynolds Many thanks, this is helpful.
Is the GEN 2 flat front datasheet going to be updated as DC 65A @ 52V nominal (3380W) isn't 3600W AC and that is before any losses are considered and therefore makes the datasheet confusing (if it wasn't for the 65A entry this thread would have been much shorter 🙂 ).
While on the subject of GEN1 --> GEN2, does the flat front GEN2 use the same wall bracket as the GEN1 ?
I hope so as this will make any swap much easier.
sponev GEN1 hybrids are limited to 50A DC in the HW hence the 2600W charge/discharge. By the time you add in some conversion losses you end up with 2400W.
Not sure why @BarryForde is only seeing 3200W battery charge rate with his GEN2 flat front, would be interested on a answer for this question.......
athresuk Thanks for that. More than hoped/expected but at least now I know why. It pays to treat the headline specs with a degree of caution then.
The battery nominal voltage is with no charge or discharge occurring.
When charging at the maximum 65 Amps, the battery voltage will be higher than the 52V, hence the maximum charge power will be higher. Say 55.3 V x 65 A = 3600 W.
When discharging at up to the maximum 80 Amps, the battery voltage will be lower than the 52V, hence the maximum discharge power will be lower than you might otherwise think. Say 49.0 V x 73.5 A = 3600 W.
Simon_C Interesting and makes sense,
The discussion started because the GEN2 flat front datasheet states 65A/81A DC charge/discharge and 3600W/3600W AC, where as the GEN2 curved front has 80A/80A DC and 3600W/3600W AC, given they are supposed to have the same internals why is the datasheet different ?
Likely that these are just datasheet inconsistencies (if so would be good if these are rectified) , but some users reported only seeing 3.2kW AC charge current and this then lead to confusion and concerns over inverter charge performance.
To be fair, the 5.2 battery still says it’s 100% DOD in their own brochure despite me repeatedly telling them (Not the data sheets, they are finally about right)
Seems to just be the GE way I’m afraid.
If someone could remind how to do it I'll copy the battery data over a 24 hour period which shows clearly the 3200W limitation.
BarryForde And just when you thought this one was buttoned up .......
Just post a picture of the battery tab from "my inverter".
While in there it is worth checking that you do not have a battery charge limit set to 3200W.....
This is my test system GEN1 hybrid for today
[https://postimg.cc/4nDtZTW1]
Lets see if that works.
Image of yesterdays battery tab for both my inverters, plus the settings tab showing battery settings.
BarryForde Well that deffo appears to be charge limiting to approx 3.2kW even though the charge setting is at 3600W.
Oddly 53.8V reported battery voltage @ max inverter current of 65A would indeed be approx. 3600W, some something doesn't add up here
@Adam-Reynolds care to comment on this as the inverter serial number in the screen shots.
@BarryForde Do you have the 8.2kw battery?
AC-DC will incur a conversion loss, the higher the power the higher the loss also - if you can find a day of DC>DC charging you should see it charging at above that, I've looked through some days Barry and it does indeed show that.
On discharge the bat power is shown prior to conversion loss, as its from the battery so you would see 3.6KW or very close too before its converted to AC
On charging from AC it will take 3.6KW, then convert to an avg value of around 92.5% (sometimes more or less depending on heat loss) which equates to around 3.3KW. So this is expected.
You'll see the same thing on Gen 1's with AC charging, but you can expect to see 99% efficiency DC>DC so you should get the full charge rate (or very close too)
THALL No they are both 9.5kW Gen2 batteries.
Adam-Reynolds Thanks for looking at this and helps to clear up what is going on.
It appears to be all about where the power is measured/conversion losses.
The GEN1 hybrid will also show 2600W discharge vs 2400W charge (200W difference) which lines up with the 7.5% losses you mention.
For a GEN2 the losses will be in the order of 300W (as the current is higher) so 3300W approx should be seen in any data when charging.
I guess similar data would be apparent with any GEN2 curves units, but as there are not any out in the wild yet there is no data for these.......
Adam-Reynolds Thats very interesting. I guess DC-DC will be either PV or cross charging from tother battery? I've got 4920whp of solar but its split half and half across the two invertors so max would be 2460w. But when the batteries are doing a tango I suppose one can dump at 3600w to the other or mix of PV and battery?
Personally I'm perfectly happy with how its working as I'd originally done my sums based on 2600W of Gen1 units anyway and that was why I opted for dual inverters.
Unusually today is sunny, batteries are full and I've run out of washing to do so SEG payments rolling up, pathetic though they are! I guess as we move into summer I'll have to start reducing the overnight charging.
BarryForde DC>DC will be on hybrid models only from either the solar or wind connected directly too it.
I guess we need to attenuate our expectations but it would be handy if these issues were highlighted on the spec sheets, not just best case figures.
ok cool.. so either the gen 2 flat or curved will be equal.. i noticed the gen 2 curved is higher in dimensions so might not fit in the same place my gen 1 is.. so maybe id be best with a gen 2 flat.. even if i have an option when it comes to it
sponev I think that's called marketing 😉 (not just GE or solar batteries!)
phoenix Hmmm. I own a marketing company and experience suggests that accuracy and transparency always wins out in the end. Pretending you can do stuff you can't and selling products that aren't actually available or don't meet spec, will catch up with you pretty damn fast. Hopefully we're not witnessing that.
GE certainly seems to have a bad dose of 'vapourware', which they just don't seem able to shift.
You can lie to a customer to sell once and only once. Telling the truth, particularly admitting when you can’t do something is much more successful.
I fear we are preaching to the terminally obstinate.
If they don't get it by now, I suspect they never will. Corporate culture tends to filter down from the top, so I suspect we would only see a change in the way customers are treated, if the person at the top changes - or if GE gets bought out by a more customer-aware organisation.
Hasn't there recently been a change at the top?
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-howlett-50963a3/?originalSubdomain=uk
I put a link on companies house details and a different structure somewhere, probably the 3007 firmware thread.
It makes interesting viewing… take that as good or bad however you personally perceive these things.
kram Not sure that this subject is correct for the community page but thanks for bringing it to our attention. I have read the charges and it's very concerning regarding the survival of GivEnergy.
Considering the lack of being able to deliver equipment (appreciate Ukraine war, COVID etc) for almost 12 months then is this a company that has any longevity. I'm still referring to the availability of the GEN 2 Inverters!
Clearly there is a great team propping up the company but how long can this last?
Customers / Installers have ploughed good money into GivEnergy and it's in all of our interest for them to succeed. Is it about time we had a definitive statement from Peter Osler about the company status?
GBISLT I also just read the charge. It's often hard to determine exactly what's going on in the background but it doesn't read very well at all on face value.
It looks like we need a formal statement not only on the nasty SoC issue but also one regarding the overall status of the company. Quite disturbing. Important to clarify quickly I feel as confidence continues to slip away. Glad I took the advice to pay some of my install on credit card, just in case. Hopefully all works out as Giv do a lot of stuff well.
I've not read the charge but is it related to the purchase of land around the same time?
Linky Link
hoggy Possibly. But seems odd that a land deal resulted in a charge appearing at Companies House? On face value it reads a bit like they had to sign their life away, but not really my area of expertise. Hence why a formal clarification would be useful to set minds at rest (or not). Giv and good comms do appear to be mutually exclusive sometimes though, so if there is sensitivity, we'll possibly hear nowt. Hopefully I'm wrong and someone senior understands the importance and tells us what's going on.
hoggy Ah, that sheds more light on it.
I'd take a random guess and presume they've had big investment and a change of management. Although market news would be welcome.
Hook Could well be it was all part of them getting the finance. That would be plausible. Plus the new senior management changes. Hopefully whoever has control (or effective control) stays the course. Lots of potential if done right. A statement would be useful though to stop us all speculating.
Hook I'll take your word for it - I thought I sucked at building websites but that page just pinned my CPU at 100% constantly loading advertisement garbage every time I tried to scroll down!
I see the curved unit has been removed from the website - and specs updated for the Flat version.
Max DC input per string - 7.5kW etc
Haddock , it is probably a typo, as it still states 6500 W on the web page where the data sheet download link is.
Not much attention to detail when updating the data sheet. I hope not by the same person that is updating the battery firmware code.
Wonder if the 3,000 units arriving will be all flat versions then?
Despite GivEnergy stating that no one had preference it appears that E-On have got as many GEN 2 as they need (according to the GivEnergy Installers Goup)? Can a representative from GE comment please?
Was this the 3k shipment coming in this month?
One installer has got over £1m worth of installations to fulfill, how many other installers are in the same position.
Wholesalers saying they won't be available until March!
Simon_C Possibly…. But I’m guessing not, they had no reason to update the datasheet - nice addition for those waiting for Gen2.
sponev I don't see anything worrying about the charge registered at Companies House, it is for RBS Invoice Finance - a normal and standard thing for a Bank to do when supplying invoice financing (which is just a way of evening out your cashflow). Have done it myself in the past for a couple of businesses. Normal stuff!
Of more interest is Givenergy Commercial Ltd - incorporated Dec 16th - same officers. Wonder what they will be doing via that business?
wilfleek there’s a few different offshoots.
Giveducation looks like it’s going to help schoolchildren learn (something, not sure what) which is pretty nice.
wilfleek Ah, thanks for clarifying. The wording on the charge is what I think was worrying people. It seems a peculiar way of registering such a mechanism but as you say, seems legit. Cheers
sponev one thing you can be sure of - Banks will take every precaution against losing money to a business!
Without wanting to drag this thread off, look at the multiple companies. A holding company a consumer one, a few others. I know as someone who has dealt with company structures there can be multiple reasons but this doesn’t look great without additional information.
Agree let's keep this on thread - it keeps veering into badly-founded conspiracy theories. There's absolutely nothing unusual about a company having a holding structure like this - see every tech, energy, financial services, manufacturing, medical company etc. Anything beyond a tiny SME will often lean this way for a variety of financial, organisational and efficiency reasons.
Givenergy need to improve, but let's not get silly about the rationale as it doesn't help focus on the right things...!
alphabeta77 Agreed. It's easy to fall into traps when there are currently lots of things wrong exacerbated by very poor comms, me included. But this should be another lesson to Giv really - if you don't do the basics right, stuff escalates. You should see the sh1t and grief on social media etc at the moment - including installers who say they won't ever touch the gear again. I hope the new Giv guys are aware and working on it.
Spot on!
any updates on availability?
talked to my installer yesterday and they are hoping to be able to swap out my gen 1 for a gen 2in march.. so not long to wait now
michaelmcgoldrick
I have a booking for 22nd March for my GEN 2 + 9.5 battery,
When I see it I will believe it
michaelmcgoldrick Let me know how you get on with that - they told me recently that they weren't sure when stock would be available.
simondoyle will do.
I’d been waiting since in ordered my system in June 2022. Push back in October to December, then to January, then Feb/March but then it suddenly arrived late January.
It was installed last week. Gen 2, 9.5 Bat.
Still waiting on the new EV Charger. Current news is March.
Mine got installed last week, so definitely some around now....!
I have Gen 2, and 9.5kwh battery, together with solar PV going in on 6th March. Finger crossed!
Just had my gen 1 swapped out for a gen2, battery calibration currently running. Added a 5.2 battery to my 9.5. nice to see 3.8kw coming from the battery!
Update: I had my GEN 2 5kW Inverter + 9.5 battery fitted on Wednesday 22nd March, so pleased I waited. Still can't believe the performance and so happy. It's been a very long painful process,
My initial interest in Solar / Battery began in February 2022 but after being messed about by E-on went with another company. One comment though right from early days my decision was to have a hard-wired LAN connection after seeing the continuous issues surrounding Wi-Fi,and the my location in the garage, I know it's only early days but as you would expect connection is rock solid.
The other reason I stayed with GivEnergy is the depth of information that's available (even got my Wife absorbed in studying the APP), studied alternative Inverter manufactures and the data is nowhere near as good as GE. Added to that Home Assistant setup with GivTCP from day 1 and that gives whole lot more flexibility and information.
My Wife has already suggested we get another battery........