New AIO Issues

Hi All! I've just fired off an email to support and my installer, but should I be experiencing these issues on a new AIO install (7 days old). How many of these are unique to me or are all these to be expected?

1) Battery Charge Drops
Three days in a row my battery has experienced a substantial drop in charge percentage. These drops have happened instantly and not in relation to any house load, the charge is just vanishing. Tuesday 24th Oct 29% to 4%, Wednesday 25th Oct 29 to 4%, Thursday 26th 34% to 5%.

2) Charge Rate
The battery seems only to charge at around 5.75kW rather than 6kW

3) Data Discrepancy
There is a large data discrepancy between what is recorded in the meters (also displayed on the scrolling banner of the dashboard) VS the Energy Graph (and app cards). I think this discrepancy is present across all of the different data points but generation is the easiest to demonstrate. Eg. Sunday 22nd the meters claim I generated 11.75kWh but the reports and Energy Graph state only 7.33 - that’s a 47% difference. A discrepancy has been present each day since installation. The meter data more closely matches the actual generation.

4) PV Generation Not Showing
PV data isn’t shown/logged/used by the AIO/Gateway if generating under 200W

5) Battery Pause
The battery Pause button doesn’t seem to work or do anything from the quick controls.

6) Not Fully Charging
Battery charged today overnight from 5% to 100% but this appears to have taken under 2 hours and pulled less than 10kWh from the grid. I can’t see how this could be 100% on a 13.5kWh battery.

7) Warany Info
The warranty expiration date in the portal claims 2028-07-21 but this not the 12 years it should be.

8) Commission Date
The commission date states 25th July 2023 which is incorrect, My installation was 19th Oct 2023.

Many thanks.

I'd suggest you have a read through and add your name to the pot on these two threads as unfortunately although new issues to yourself pretty much all of those have been experienced in them:
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/3276-steer-clear-from-aio
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/2709-battery-calibration

Just to add (I am about a month ahead of you, as my install date was 22 Sep)

1) Known firmware issue. I am one of a small number of users testing beta firmware to address this issue. Initial signs are positive that it addresses the issue.

2) This is normal, I believe. Mine now charges at the low 5.80kW's (I originally had an install issue, where it was software limited to 5kW)

3) I don't watch my meters, but I understand that this is a known issue

4) Yes, others have noted this. My suspicion is that this is probably a display issue

5) I believe this is a known issue

6) Same issue as 1). The firmware problem is that the 100% is not really 100% but something lower. Only when the charge runs out does it correct itself via a step-down. Hopefully the new firmware will have this fixed

7) Contact support@givenergy.co.uk - I got mine amended by them just yesterday

8) See 7) - hopefully they will be able to help here too

There are a number of unhappy punters around here who didn't realise they were buying a system where the bugs had not yet been ironed out before it came to market. I'm a glass-half-full kind of person, so am optimistic that these are just short term issues.

PianSom I understood there would be teething issues not to the extent that two full charges would = 3.6kwh, monday is supposed to be a great day for solar so I am going to get the testing bms pushed and calibration done then for myself since I am not on flux anymore, could change back if they could schedule it for around 1am though hehehe.

Jellybaby Be interested to see how you get on. If you do get it, I suggest you ask for a full charge+discharge calibration. I only did a full charge one, which (I suspect) meant that my "empty" setting was not set correctly, giving me a small step-down on the first day I had the firmware. The second day - yesterday - it was just fine.

PianSom Yeah I would have had the update already but they said they needed a calibration done and the weather has been absolutely crap and I want to minimize as much cost as I can since they said it WILL also include a discharge/recharge cycle.

Monday is looking quite promising, I will probably shift over to flux again as well just to start charging it again properly to see how it behaves but will have to monitor it closely and disable eco mode IF it starts to go off again as ill need to reserve myself past the 4-7 period.

Although I might just bite the bullet and eat the cost and get them to do it tomorrow, will be first time I will have gone over 20kwh in a day in a long time.

gbleeds sorry to say these are all typical for my AIO. Drops and jumps in SOC.
What I would like to know is am I still using 13,5kwh full to empty or am I getting short changed and only using between the 20% and 95%. Is it purely mis reporting the SOC!
Either way GE say they are fixing this urgently, so please add or raise a tech enquiry with GE. Not much your installer can do.
Some say their AIO is working normally but I suspect they are either not following closely or not using or attempting to use the full DOD.
Good luck.

Jellybaby Can anyone request the beta bms then?

gbleeds no clue, ive been emailing and updating GE email whilst ive been having troubles and they offered to update it for me.

gbleeds

gbleeds YES to all your issues, which seem to be an issue across the board with AIOs. Growing number of very unhappy customers here. As for "beta testing", I have not paid over £7k for an unfinished product that is still undergoing testing. Legal action is going to start soon if GE don't get this sorted.

I must say, I do feel a bit conned. I was aware of the SOC issue before I decided to get it. But I wrongly thought it was a random 'every now and then' issue that sometimes cropped up. I don't think I'd have gone for GivEnergy if I had released that it was an actual daily problem.

The other issues are very annoying too. Although the commission date and warranty have now been corrected.

GaryS I’m not defending GivEnergy. They will have done a load of testing before the product was released but clearly that isn’t the same as real world experience with hundreds of users.

Same with the BMS upgrade. There was loads and loads (months and months) of beta testing with some very needy people reporting back their experiences before BMS 3013 was released to the public. I waited several weeks to see there were no adverse issues before upgrading and subsequently there were issues reported and the release was pulled from availability and a number of people have downgraded back to 3012. Personally I remain on BMS 3012 on one battery and 3013 on the other (because I was staggering the upgrades) and both seem equally stable and I’ve had no issues. But other people have had.

I’m no lawyer but I suspect legal action is easier to threaten than to make stick. Sale of goods act and not fit for purpose is probably the best approach but even that’s hard to prove. There’s no statements in the literature about soc tracking, power in = power out (minus conversion losses). Maybe a case for batteries that can’t take the full advertised storage limit, but I suspect many of the issues being experienced are going to be difficult to make a legal case over.
I too hope givenergy sort these issues out soon but I do know software and hardware development is a complex and lengthy business. Nevertheless the lack of public comments from GivEnergy to the very vocal community here is v disappointing

It’s an issue, it doesn’t work as promised and it’ll get fixed in a future firmware as some point isn’t a defence.

Of course your contract is with your installer.

TBH I’d be more interested in seeing a firm of lawyer take this up as a collective (class) action lawsuit and going after the manufacturer now it’s a thing in the UK. Why? Because the truth would likely come out in the defence and people would get a fair resolution one way or another.

Plus if it is as few as GE claim, then it’d not get off the ground due to not enough people coming forward.

Mine is getting worse. First plunge from 24% then from 34%. Today was 40%.

Has everyone else found that it gets worse every day?

gbleeds yup and each time for me it lowered the capacity, today 3.1kwh charge was apparently 45%

^^^^ From my Battery Calibration thread.

Have you had a recalibration, when they do a calibration cycle does you gain the lost back before it starts getting worse again?

gbleeds I had one on the 27th of September, 16.5kwh got put into battery after that the floor kept raising so kept losing capacity, it got to the point where two FULL charges from solar were done by 2pm after I deliberately discharged the first to push voltage down to see if that would help but two complete flat to 100% charges put 3.6kwh total into battery.

Before firmware update and calibration it was the ceiling that kept coming down so you couldn't get full charge but due to it being the ceiling coming down a SOC drop gave you full capacity back unlike this time, it was completely predictable and could be planned to end at start of cheap rate.

I had to switch off flux to standard flexible 27p tariff because the battery wouldn't even last me through the 4-7pm peak period even if I charged it up as much as it would take beforehand.

gbleeds Absolutely. Mine dropped from 63% to 4% yesterday evenoing, after havinlg only used 4.5kwh from the battery. This is getting ridiculous. The AIO does not have a few flaws, it is not fit for purpose for what it is sold.

So do you guys think it’s anything to do with the AIO having 4 x 4 kWh batteries instead of 1 x 16 kWh. Does the Powerwall have one battery or four?

If one of the batteries has a fault or discharging quicker than the others would it affect the SOC calculation?

So the worrying question would be, we were told we can have up to 6 AIO’s (like the Powerwall can now) but it’s delayed until 2024. Is there an issue with say 2 x AIO (8 x batteries) and the SOC calculation.

It’s a shame we don’t know someone that has Solar and a rack with 4 x pylon US5000 to see if they are getting the same issues.

https://www.batteryfactory.co.uk/collections/lithium-batteries/pylontechbatteries

A BMS should connect to each cell and balance the charge between them. If you have four separate batteries each with their own BMS they would have to communicate between each other.

nophead they indeed do.
The AIO has 3 levels of battery management.
One in each pack.
One in each stack
And one control board.

Same hirachy as the 3ph stackable hybrid.

TheDragon (GivEnergy) very interesting, I wonder how different the automotive BEV world approach this BMS conundrum! A friend of mind owns https://eatron.com/portfolio/bmstar-battery-management-system/ they have developed AI BMS for automotive installations, I think I’ll ask him what he makes of the challenges for home battery storage BMS.

TheDragon (GivEnergy) Then why is my AIO dropping SOC from 63% (last night) to 4% in a cliff edge drop? Trying to get GE to respond to my tickets but nobody replies.

@TheDragon (GivEnergy)
30% max capacity here, any chance I could get put on the beta, also having some givtcp issues which are only solved by a restart of the battery, so thinking this is down to comms, which has been fine until now,

on 609.

John Rogers Some users have reported an issue with the AIO of locked comms if the charger rate is greater than around 4kw.

Pandorian some, being 1 person.

@John Rogers I'm on 609 and not seeing any GivTCP issues.
I'm polling at 30s intervals.

GaryS
What is the inverter serial number.
I have enough on this 1st test.
However the next iteration, minor tweak needed after a weeks data.
Next test will be wider. So will look for a mix of usage patterns.

My device gets cycled most days so rarely see anything not normal. Capacity is 13.5 to 14kWh for a full charge.

One tester has 15kWh every day since test began on Monday. Again not ideal candidate for half users.

So will be looking for a couple of keep in top half of the SoC and a couple in the bottom. A couple middle huggers.

TheDragon (GivEnergy) It has just done it again... Dropped from 67% like a brick.
SN: CH2315G166

TheDragon (GivEnergy)
I don’t charge from grid, my system is just storing solar then powering the house overnight as long as it can.
Was installed in August and I went a few days sometimes without drawing from the grid.
Last week it went from 10% to 100% with less than 2kWh from solar then later dropped back to 8% in half an hour with circa 1kW load. Seems to have returned to more normal operation since.
Happy to join the beta if this type of usage is one that will help with testing programme.

treborUK

Yes, a PV only user is good to have, when I get the next test version, tweaked from the data from last week, i can add you
I will need your serial number

TheDragon (GivEnergy) I'd be more than happy to take part too Paul.

TheDragon (GivEnergy)
Hi Paul, AIO SN CH2315G354
Regards,Rob

TheDragon (GivEnergy) if you need a non PV user ie grid only happy to help testing firmware

AiO system installed less than a month. Was reversed back to Battery firmware 6 last week. Battery dropped from 39% to 0 in a flash. Guess I will have to ring GE yet again

Springbokboi Did you get any solutions yet?

The test BMS is looking good, 90% there, still discharge SOC tracking gradient is too low.

Ie the graph falls slower than reality, leaving a shortfall each cycle. then when OCV kicks in at idle (Maybe not each day) the correction is seen as a drop.

The SOC graph gradient needs to exactly match the expended energy in ALL situations, useage, cycle count, temperature etc et.

Ive been told this weekend I will have it to try, which will go on 10 samples, then a further 10 for another week, prior to being released in the wild

TheDragon (GivEnergy) I guess to get that SOC graph gradient to exactly match the expended energy is no small challenge, given all the variables literally changing by the second, especially solar PV generation on these part cloudy days.... my generation graph looks like a the teeth of a saw! Add to that load consumptions varying all the time as well with appliances going on and off etc..
I have tried to "smooth" the sharp peaks and troughs between battery charging and discharging the last week and it seems to have helped my AIO to behave better.

• Set the night charging rate as as slow as possible for my 6 cheap hours on Octopus Intelligent GO - around 2300W, so it charges slowly and evenly over the whole period;
• try to limit peak discharge at max rate as far as possible with some load balancing - thinking before turning on oven and dishwasher at the same time.
• discharge to the grid at lower setting for longer period (I can do that as I am on Outgoing Octopus at set 15c/kwh... hence rather going full wack at 6kw, double the time and slow down to 3kw.
  -
  Seems that above "soft" battery treatment does help the present BMS to keep track better.
  Looking forward to the new verions (Firmware 8?) when you are ready.

TheDragon (GivEnergy) I don't mind fluctuations myslelf in SOC but I would like more than 10-40% of my battery to be usable especially if the SOC drops.

Given that nobody else has reported full charges from flat putting less than 4kwh into teh battery (and one day in my case 1kwh) I am not 100% its a firmware issue but im happy to be proven wrong as that is an easier and quicker fix than someone coming to check out the system.

Jellybaby

Hi yah,

I discharged to the grid yesterday at 4pm for 40 mins, took the battery from 100% to 76%. Then it went down slowly to 46% at 2am. Then it charged for 2 hrs (which I set 2-4am) to 100%.

I did not look at GE data this time I looked at Octopus. Looks like a good charge.

Jellybaby I had 2kWh take mine from 10% to full, followed a few hrs later by a 1kW load dropping it back to 10% in under an hour.
Haven’t seen quite such big drops since and have managed to put 9-10 kWh back in, still seeing drops but typically 10-20%.
Just riding it out and not worrying overly until the next firmware drop, assuming things will improve somewhat.

treborUK
The testing will re-commence this weekend, once i get the next test release, load to the current samples, then add more to it, of which iv got 3 lined up to add

TheDragon (GivEnergy) the new test FW arrived as planned on Saturday morning.

Those who asked, have it loaded.
Those who I could make contact had it calibrated.
We now wait a week to analyse the results.

I include me in this, its also loaded to my own system and I calibrated it last night, to be an equal and fair trial.

TheDragon (GivEnergy) Will I still be getting it this week?

TheDragon (GivEnergy)
Hello - I am on the previous beta and have not been updated.

(Not sure if it is you I have been in email convo with, or someone else? I just reached out by email but thought I would post here also.)

Inverter CH2316G275

EDIT - oh, hold on. I see that a GE person did a restart on my inverter at 12:29 yesterday. But no sign of a change of version. These values are unchanged iirc

PianSom how did you find current version you are on now? Any better than 608?

Jellybaby
FAR better, but still not perfect.

The last beta still suffered from occasional unexpected step-downs (as you probably read above, apparently because the discharge rate was incorrectly determined, which resulted in sporadic corrections). I charge/discharge fully or close to fully most days, and had a step-down every 2-3 days.

Other than that - it just worked as I expected it to. (With one exception due to user error!)

PianSom Nice, when it did drop down did you get full capacity of your battery back, that is the major issue im having on 607 I never have full capacity it ranges anywhere from 1.6kwh for a flat to full charge to 6 but if I let it idle for 4-5 days and charge from solar I can get it close to 10.

It was the sole reason I had to drop octopus flux because it got to the point where a charge wouldn't see me through the 3 hour period.

Jellybaby
I don't track capacity as such, tbh. But I can say that the overnight charging time to full (I'm on Octopus Go, so have 00:30-04:30 at 9p) didn't vary enough for me to think that I didn't have the full capacity available.

Take an example - Friday. I started the day at 19% reported, charged to full, had a very heavy usage day, but also took advantage of an Octopus Power-up 14:00-16:00. Here's the resulting graph. If you look at the period 00:30 to 02:30 then the battery usage increased from 19% to 91% (ie 72%), which at the full 5.8kW charge rate implies a capacity of around 16ish kWh - about right.

EDIT - for maths errors

PianSom atm I think I got around 3.5kwh left in battery (discharge is paused, didnt want to let it idle on flat) and its at 58%.

check out my battery calibration thread, start from bottom up to see what kind of problems ive been having which are being put down to firmware, if nothing changes and I get exactly same results after a firmware update and calibration I am going to demand someone come out to give my system a look over and considering the length of time ive been having a problem I am going to be insisting they get someone out pronto.

Jellybaby
I have been following your troubles. You have FAR more patience than me!

Your comms issues alone would drive me round the bend. Like you I am hard-wired in, and I have not had a single comms issue in the 6 or so weeks since install.

PianSom Really, maybe it does need a look at then.

PianSom sounds encouraging though 😀

I suppose we should consider ourselves lucky then, as the only issue that we have experienced so far is the data discrepancy. The Meter Data and the legacy dashboard tiles on the right hand side seem OK (Ish - I'll come to that in a minute). But the Energy graph in the app, most of the other data in the dashboard and the daily reports are complete nonsense. We need those daily reports to see what saving we are making and whether to change our tariff.

The more the sun shines, the lower some of the values that are reported get. It's not uncommon for our generated figures and our home consumption figures to be negative on a sunny day.

However, the Meter Data figures can't be completely correct either as the incoming power from all sources must always equal the outgoing power to all sources - that is:

Solar Generation + Grid Import + Battery Discharge = House Consumption + Grid Export + Battery Charge.

But on a typical day, we appear to be generating 1 - 2 kWh more than we are consuming. And I cannot see how that can be.

Msquared Have you considered the AC-DC conversion losses for storing AC from solar inverter or grid to battery and then again DC-AC conversion losses from converting DC from the battery to AC to power the home ?

Jellybaby I just checked my E-Mails Dragon, I am so sorry I missed the E-Mail on Saturday, ive only gotten responses to my E-Mails during the week and assumed that weekends were days off so not bothered checking.

I have replied, again I am very sorry and ill make sure to load up on weekends in future just incase.

Before I bought this solar equipment I could go weeks without checking E-Mail lol.

Edit
Not sure why I replied to myself, I swear I tried to reply to Dragon lol

Thanks everyone for this thread, it's helped me understand my AIO behaviour a bit better.

Since our install 2 weeks ago I've not seen it take more than 10kwh from a 4% SOC. Yesterday I seemed to experience this 'cliff edge' situation, and overnight it only took 8.5kwh from the grid. I am always fully charging it overnight as at this time of year my solar panels can only generate 4kwh-ish a day. I've never seen it hit 6kwh when charging, only when discharging to one of the cars.

Luckily I have our installer coming out to me today anyway, so I will show them this thread and see what they say.

PianSom

Is the new BMS. If you were not calibrated, i maybe didnt get in contact with you. Half got calibrated, half didnt

TheDragon (GivEnergy)
Thank you!

Certainly no calibration (feel free to set one off whenever you are ready).

FWIW I think I had a slow step-down yesterday evening at 5.20pm (bit hard to tell, as it was a high load period). Hopefully not material.

Unfortunately its time to add my name to the list 3 days in a row I have only pulled 8.7,9.3,7.9 from the battery before it dropped to 4% and pulled from grid so its very clear as such what's happening as no solar in the mix.

Chargers overnight to 100% and having it charging at just over 3kw

treborUK Sorry I've only just seen your reply.

I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am, but these are the meter data values measured at the inverter. So what goes into the inverter must be the same as what comes out, or the inverter would explode (or implode?) as you can't lose or gain energy overall. It's got to go somewhere, or come from somewhere!

I understand that not all the energy that's routed to the battery will be available when you take it out again, as there are transmission losses on the way in, and on the way out. But that's not what the meter data figures are measuring. They are measuring (or claim to be measuring) all the incoming power sources (solar generation, grid import and battery discharge) and all the outgoing power sources (house consumption, grid export and battery charge).

My understanding is that these totals should be equal, or, (allowing for tiny fluctuations in measurements etc) almost equal. Yet we see a discrepancy or 1.5 - 2 kWh every day. This is a lot when you consider that our total house consumption is around 6 - 8 kWh per day.

Msquared

I've been trying to get my head round the AIO performance and the "Inverter Data" too - what I've deduced so far is approximately:
Load - PPV + PAC + Inverter Losses = PInv
PInv + Battery Losses = PBat

I've taken a stab at a glossary here:
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/3467-inverter-data-headings-glassary

TheDragon (GivEnergy) - I tried to rename the above thread to correct the typo "glassary" but don't have permission - please can you fix? Also happy to join a trial of new firmware - I'm currently on AIO firmware D0.607-A0.607 with battery firmware 6). I'm mostly a top hugger with overnight charges to 100%, but occasionally we go below 40% SOC and have experienced 4 resulting SOC drops in the last month or so. See post above for images.

Firmware version Do.608.A0.608 on CH2315G306 it's been a little while since we lost comms (25th Oct) so that may be building but over the last few days I've seen almost an exponential (strictly not mathematically from the numbers to follow) increase in discharge so I wonder if there's an error accumulation over time that comes into the BMS, today lost about 25% of our 13.5kWh AOI instantly (yesterday was 20, day before 20, day before 18 day before 11 day before 6 day before not much at all... )

26Left Whilst I was on 607 I used to keep track of the kwh put in for a full charge after a SOC drop and then added/subtracted kwh in and out in something like you see below which I have been keeping since I got the test firmware pushed and system calibrated.

If you know your daily usage you can plan around the drop so you don't get caught with your pants down during expensive period if you are on flux/agile and if you are close to a drop you can purposely make it happen then charge it back up if a cheap period is incoming as I know that was the only way to get full battery usage again and make the ceiling reset on 607.

Well my progression continues, absolutely massive 34% drop on a very large battery, instantly, so definitely something growing in error. Is there any way to force a recalibration? Otherwise I'm going to be left with almost no battery capacity in a few days time!!!!

Also, good example of discharge spikes

This is what it looks like with a none solar setup

DCostura heh, snap, had the same %age soc drop just now

Guess my question is if the hardware is going to burn my house down or if it's just a relic of analytics and its a refinement of code, is it real or is it just a relic?

Jellybaby The battery has definitely lost the plot, I reduced the max to 5.5Kw charge to see if I was pushing the limits with the 6kW that I had set, but it went from 20% to 80% charge after only charging for less than an hour at 5.5kW so it looks to me like the battery only thinks it's around 9kW total size now (5.5kW charge (if even that) for an hour/0.6 (60% increase in charge) = 9.2kWhr) Is there a way to force a recalibration? It seems to be in a death spiral

Mine is slowly getting worse still unto about 42% before it drops now - waiting on installer to respond.

Any sign new firmware is due soon to fix if the beta is going well?

DreadorUK I have the the 24211 (apparently there was a newer version on saturday) and it still played up but this time I couldn't even rely on the math for kwh in and out which never happened on the previous two but ive developed a new issue last couple of days which makes setting charging periods useless.

After having steady increase in drops ,to 34% in size, it did seem to figure itself out again, not sure what triggered it....

Jellybaby I had this, but I simply set my battery to a fixed IP and force connected it to the nearest hotspot and its been fine since,

John Rogers oh mine is fixed to its own IP connected via LAN same with gateway, got stuff assigned an IP address and its MAC and identity written down on sheet of paper.

If you were referring to my charging issues see my Battery Calibration thread, long story short despite the "written successfully" reset of charge slot #4 to 00:00-00:00 after a day the end slot changed to 06:00 as it was previous but still displayed as 00:00 in portal so it looked like I was doing everything right.

Having a recalibration today to see if that sorts my issue only charged to 8kwh last night.

Does beg the question why GivEnergy don't allow us to do our own calibration as if thats the standard go to we are quite capable of doing it and at a more convenient (aka cheaper) time.

DreadorUK
They used to allow it.
A calibration is hard on the batteries as it drains them right down to zero (including, AFAIK, the buffer). Undoubtedly you'd get some users doing repeated calibrations and then warranty claims would rise.

Zakalwe
Point taken, counter would be they could make it a one time thing maybe so they enable it during support call then its up to me to action it after which its disabled again,I also asked if they could schedule it answer was no.

Its just frustrating because if I could do it then it would be cost wise 5p as Id trigger it 10 mins in to the charge at 23:40 and then when it fills up its just normal fill - but now its £3.90.

I have just loaded all the test inverters with BMS test 3
It will show as BMS version 24301

Unless a new joiner to the trial, i havn't calibrated any inverters

Thanks dragon, will wait for battery to drain again so I can start doing kwh in/out (hopefully wont lose 1-2kwh out of nowhere like I did on last one) which wont take long today, dad using his laser cutting machine (bigger than my desk) for cutting wood today, don't know how long he has had it running though as comms dropped out again this morning at 7am, no portal update and couldnt connect via app on home.

TheDragon (GivEnergy)

Can calibrations be scheduled to happen automatically by GE - or is a question of only ad-hoc / manual timing when you phone in?

Given the list of the known issues for the AIO - why aren't these recorded on the "Known issues" tab on the portal - and marked as "Unresolved"?

26Left I was told they cannot be scheduled, they have to be done manually, I would love a one time button authorised by GE to kick it off at a time of my choosing.

My biggest problem atm has gone from the SOC issue to the comms going out issue, ive had to reboot the AIO yesterday and today so far this week and before that the last time was on Saturday, its really doing my head in.

I can still connect to it over LAN and ive not tried the last 2 times but every other time I can connect to its access point via wifi and browse the internet so I know that isnt an issue.

EDIT
My installer has been speaking with someone at GE and they were saying the comms dropout is because the panels are dropping below register point for he system to detect, what a load of rubbish, if it done that then ever since system was installed EVERYONE would be powering it down daily.

I have both these issues but reducing charge power to 3KW reduces the comms offline to around 1 per month. For me, this is not a big issue as i have most the night for it to recharge on cheap rate.
I am waiting for the fw release to improve the SOC issue. My AIO currently only has around 7.5KW capacity and on battery version 7 fw.
I also would like to see a battery calibrate button that we can execute at our time choice.

Happy to see your issues have improved
I find it difficult to understand how some AIO can charge at 6KW without loss on comms and some are only stable at 3KW running the same fw. Do we have different hw revisions or a hw fault ?

morgs mine never loses comms when I charge at 6kw, never has since installed, its just random when it goes but since ive been testing these beta firmwares they have increased a LOT.

So I had my AIO replaced on Friday to resolve the "unable to charge at 6kW" issue which is thankfully resolved. All was good, nice expected discharge curves until Monday then boom, 24%-4% in 1 minute drop...not happy at all.

FWIW I am now on Day 4 of trying the latest battery firmware beta (BMS 24301 referred to above).

Early days, but looking good so far. I've had no vertical fall-offs on reported charge so far, even after a couple of full charge/discharge cycles.

PianSom I had the new BMS uploaded Monday 24301 as well but no calibration done this time, dad drained the battery good using his laser cutter for his woodworking for most the day on the worst day of the week so far so I got a full charge last night, it put 13.9kwh into the battery so ive started keeping track of the in and out kwh.

As of now total is 14.5 in 4.9 out and a reported 78%, going by the numbers I got around 9.6. I know its not going to be exact due to only one decimal place being shown in portal but discrepancy is usually +/- 0.5kwh.

As long as my comms don't keep going out ofc I can track this properly but for some reason the last couple of times ive had to restart the AIO due to comms failure the battery discharge kwh has gone backwards 1-2kwh.

Jellybaby
At midnight last night I was at 5%. It charged fully overnight and it has now fully discharged to 5% again.

What with some conversion losses, this looks believable:

(Quite where the 14.6 comes from is another question!)

PianSom Even with the conversion losses when I was gettign SOC drops on 607 and 608 it always came down to max iirc 0.5kwh, all documented in my calibration thread.

Nearly 1kwh for just 1 day seems like a lot.

Jellybaby
About 6%? Does that really seem like a lot for a AC -> DC -> AC conversion?

(Genuine question - I have no yardstick here)

PianSom 6% for 2 conversions is not bad. I'd consider anything under 10% ie 5% per conversion as acceptable. But that's just my view based on a general understanding of where conversion losses are with the latest technologies.

DJBenson

I was having drops but it was predictable as charge prior as such was not filling up (so 4% charge with 7kWh overnight) next day kinda expected drop as knew battery didn't have it in it to give 13 kWh.

I had a recalibration yesterday and now battery so far is being good and topping back up to full capacity so expect no drops.

PianSom no clue myself either here but 13.5kwh usable before conversion removal kinda makes it less than it should be capacity wise no matter how little, so far today this is fresh charge (note that 0.2 discharge was before it started charging)

Last night my math went into the negative on kwh but I was playing a little guessing game but it was only -0.6 and that was after a couple of days of up and down.

I've not really checked up on what marketing says currently (is it DOD or the word 'usable'?)

To me, usable should be defined as after conversion to AC, whereas DOD would be DC before conversion losses take place.

Excerpt from the spec sheet -

FWIW this afternoon, a few hours after fully discharging to 5%, it "found" another 2% and discharged that too. So the today's total discharge amount now is 13.9kWh (with now about a 5% conversion loss from 14.6kWh import).

Comfortably above the 13.5kWh spec in either case.

gbleeds
I have got the same problem with 2 days in a row around 6pm the charge drops from 60-80% to 4%. I have sent an email to the support team but awaiting reply.
I agree seeing issues on the AIO which cost £7k is not pleasant.

@PianSom I am curious as to how this will develop as it comes to draining completely.

I won't be filling it up til mid AM though, I am going to put charge slot from 2-6am and let whatever time after it charges run off grid whilst cheap so it may just finish discharging everything by then as mum is going to put washing machine on at midnight and then shove the wash in dryer as well.

Jellybaby
I had a second blip up in reported charge followed by a discharge down to 5% yesterday evening.

So yesterday’s final tally was
Import - 14.6 kWh
Export - 14.0 kWh

Impressive efficiency. And - more to the point - almost perfect firmware performance

PianSom sounds encouraging - thanks for the update.

Which AIO and battery firmware are you now on? I’m still on:

Inverter Firmware Version
D0.607-A0.607
Battery Firmware Version
6

26Left
I am a beta tester. 609 and 24211

I was having nightmares on your version - loss of charge capacity and regular random step-downs in reported available charge.

PianSom thanks. Guess I’ll have to wait for the rollout. That’s been my experience too. Did the firmware updating the AIO take the house offline? That’s was my issue at commissioning.

26Left

No.

This is my third round of beta testing. The first moved me from (iirc) 607 to 609 and BMS to (again iirc) 7. That round involved a calibration. The second was a new BMS (24211). And this one is BMS 24301 (sorry, typo in last post). Been on that since Saturday.

At no stage (since installation day) have I had either grid or internet/comms failure.

PianSom I didn't manage to get full discharge last night, mum decided not to do washing but I got fairly close. This was after it got back to 100%

26Left That also happened with me but I got it shortly after launch before the firmware that stopped that might have been on units automatically.

Also id stay on 607, with 607 when I did get a SOC drop I got full capacity of my battery back and I could plan for when the SOC happened by doing the math of kwh in and out after a full charge like you see above, with 608 it kept rolling the dice on how much capacity it wanted to give me.

Took the plunge and upgraded firmware to 609.
Lets see what happens tonight!

Had this today, so have also upgraded this evening as it can hardly get worse.
Had a calibration just 2 weeks ago.
0.52 kWh to take it from 15% to 100%, then unsurprisingly a rapid descent as soon as I was putting a load on it!

@PianSom Battery didn't get depleted last night but dad had laser cutter on for about 9 hours today which guaranteed it drained lol. This was the result of a full charge, down to low then 100% then empty.

Battery had been depleting at 1.3-1.5kwh for about 8 hours straight spiking when kettle went on.

I must say if this continues I wont update anything ever on this thing lol.

EDIT
Although this is a little worrying

First charge went from 6% to 19% in 30m, second 30m period it went to 36%, each 30m period put in 3kwh

How is the Beta BMS going? It appears to have gone a bit quiet about it.

Is it likely to be released before Christmas do we think?

gbleeds I have been updating my Battery Calibration thread, was a slight confusing last week as the math that hadn't failed me before failed me and 1 time it did actually go below 10kwh but only slightly but so far it is considerably better than Version 7 battery firmware.

First two initial full discharges actually dropped it to 0.0, third it did go down to 5% this time and thanks to it slowing down as it gets close to 100% and me misjudging how much time would be needed (every so slightly) a 99% charge was 14.3kwh but I doub't it would have put much more than that in as it was going slowly.

SOC still seems quite erratic BUT quite often it adjusts itself in sometimes large gaps and isn't as smooth as I would like but the charge in battery is not so far misbehaving as much as it did previously on V7.

This is how for me it has been going since the last full charge after the last savings session, if I remove the discharge for today and put 0.1 as it was before it went to grid power then 100% today was 11.9kwh.

Also this website needs to stop having a hissy fit with copied images

Today so far, this is how it goes as it closes in on 100%

Jellybaby gbleeds
Occasional SOC drops but less frequent and severe than I had with v7 and more importantly doesn't seem to be reducing the storage capacity (with v7 I could sometimes go from 5% to 100% with 2-4 kWh of charge).

Encouraging signs for sure.

treborUK This was one particular day, I woke up and it was 100% and I was like "wut" so had a look and 1.3kwh was put into it so I ran a full discharge and then let it charge up again and total for that day for TWO flat to full charges was 3.6kwh

Im happy that isn't the case with 24301

Jellybaby yeah this was my worst I think. Flat to full was under 2kWh, then the 2nd one was more like 6-7.

24301 been much better

treborUK Am hoping the firmware gets released soon, I didn't used to get these SOC drop issues until the last few weeks and now they're increasing in frequency and severity. Down to about 9kWh capacity charge and discharge now, not ideal just as weather has got colder and I'm trying to use as much cheap rate charged units for the heat pump as possible (on Cosy tariff).

Is there any feeling it'll get released soon?

treborUK Currently doing the math I am down to 1.6kwh left and SOC reading 40%, im expecting it to go down faster now but ill keep an eye on it. Although cheap agile rates are coming up soon so may not empty.

Barns Only took in 8.8kWh to go from (supposedly) 4% to 100% overnight. Not great and getting worse each day. Costing money as well have to use a bunch more full standard rate units today now as I'm sure battery will die early. Would much appreciate timescale for new firmware. Days? A week? Still multiple weeks away?

My AIO is a recent installation (2023-11-28) and is on software version D0.609-A0.609 by default.
Perhaps there is a later version, but I'm hesitant to change without positive comments from other users.

I only seem to be able to get a usable 10 or 11 kWhr from my battery storage.
Observation yesterday was an effectively flat battery at a reported 27% remaining.
Strangely it subsequently reported 3% for an hour and then afterwards 4%.

This morning I noticed "Charge Today" = 10 kWh (to go to 100%).
To me that implies there was 3.5 kWh in the battery before the start, which I can never use.

Icarus 609 is the latest inverter software. You’re probably on v7 of battery software (latest) and this is the version where some of us were seeing frequent SOC drops and reduced capacity.

The next battery firmware is in beta test and looking much better. GE are looking at data and anomalies from the beta testers and feeding into the developers; based on my own system performance the progress is encouraging.
Hopefully not too long now before there is a full update.

Icarus Welcome to the club. If you're on firmware 609 and BMS 7 then your AIO is on the latest general release - a few people selected by GE are piloting new BMS firmware for the AIO (search 24211 and 24301 further up this thread).

If you're getting 10-11kWh usable, you're doing better than others. My analysis based on the last two months of AIO usage suggests in most cases I'm getting less than 10kWh usable.
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/3593-aio-soc-drop-analysis-based-on-inverter-data

During this time I was mostly fast charging once a day at the max 6kW. I'm now experimenting with a slower charge rate overnight to see if it behaves better - i.e. 3kW to spread charging across my off peak window (00:30 - 04:30 on Octopus Go). Slower charging is apparently better for battery life too.

26Left Mine just died again at 8.6kWh discharged after a full charge early this morning. Battery voltage plummeted and SOC dropped from about 40% to 3% in minutes. Not great.

Barns How frustrating. I'd keep a log of these events and once you have 10 or so, send it to your installer to complain to GE on your behalf.

Barns If you can load shift to help out doing the math on in/out kwh will let you know how long you got based on your current draw and average for what you do in the home.

Jellybaby yes, I've been doing this roughly by tracking how much it's taken to "full" charge from empty to 100% and then I get back roughly that amount discharge. But that amount is dropping by a kWh or so a day at present, so soon it'll be useless! So if this firmware fix doesn't arrive in the next week or so I'll have to be looking at switching away from Cosy tariff in order to avoid the expensive 4-7pm peak rate time slot, which I usually cover with the battery. It'll cost a fortune to run heating, oven, etc at that rate otherwise. Really very frustrating that there's a fixed out there and it's costing me money the longer it takes to deploy.

For a change, I have decided to announce here 1st. the BMS8 is issued to me for testing.

Beta testers will later today be invited to load it

TheDragon (GivEnergy) I know, how long is a bit of string, but how long historically have these sorts of beta tests lasted before final release? Probably not easy to answer, I understand!
It does seem for me that knocking the charge rate down to 4.5kW has helped a lot; not ideal but good enough it'll do until the fix happens. I still need to discover what keeps resetting the charge rate back to 6kW by itself though, whether it's the GE software or whether it's something happening via Home Assistant and GivTCP; as far as I know I'm only setting it myself via the app, not in any scripts.

Interesting that a lot of people are having issues. I went live with my AIO mid November and the battery seems fine for me. It charged up nicely to 100% overnight off-peak and I'm currently on 58%. Yesterday I was on about 20% by about 10pm but had some sun to top it up a few % yesterday morning.

Only issue I've had so far is the inverter going offline so having gaps in the data but that seems to have sorted itself out.

Running D0.609-A0.609 and battery firmware 7.

Also worth noting, in the remote control settings, my battery is set to charge at 60%:

deanjesper I'm guessing it's the 60% charge power you've set it at that is preventing these issues, it looks like charging slower means the SOC keeps in line a bit better. Maybe! Seems to have improved things a bit for me anyway. Interesting that you've set "Battery Charge Power Percentage" but there's also a "Battery Charge Power" that can be directly set in Watts on the same remote control page. I wonder how they interact? Both control the same thing? Mine aren't consistent - I've set the "Battery Charge Power" to 4500W (it's reading as 4452W though) but the "Battery Charge Power Percentage" is sat at 100% still. Curious and confusing.

Barns I set it to 60% here after watching a video from Sarah Go Green who was advised to set it here by GivEnergy, so that’s what I did. I haven’t touched the battery kWh settings, that’s still set to charge and discharge at 6kWh.

I think a dedicated AIO F.A.Q. would be a great help.

Barns

Hi again, this is new information I have not seen or been advised about. It would be good to get an official statement from GE on what the two do and more importantly if they conflict with each other.

My new plan stick with 4.5kw charge for a week
But it back to 6kw change power % to 60% for a week (I may adjust this for another week)
Then set both to see what happens.
Will keep you posted.

Im all for work arounds until resolved if it can be soon, and Im trying as low as 2.4 kWh's tonight as that should be viable in the 6 hours I have to charge it.

However its sold at being able to charge at 6kWh and have 13.5 kWh usable, so it should be out the box so to speak be doing that else its not as advertised and Ill leave it at that

DreadorUK just because you can doesn’t mean you should, I can’t argue with your point but charging at 60% will still go from 5% to 100% in less than 4 hours which is the window for Go, or 5 hours for Intelligent Go. Charging it slower may be better for long term battery life too.

deanjesper

Don't forget they will start selling the AIO in multiples so if you have two AIO's you might not have the luxury of charging at a lower rate.

And after all that lowering it for me made no difference I managed to bag a whole 7.9 kWh before plummeting to 4%

Tried to charge even lower last night at 2.5 and made no difference still only put 3 and a half hours into the battery, so approx 8.25 in the mix for use today

TheDragon (GivEnergy) Will this enable multiple AIOs ? I really hope so.

DreadorUK

This is a good point, after you pointed this out I also thought about my position in testing and my comments in this community. There are loads of you on 3rd party monitoring and scripting services so thought I would hold off and just use the app and Portal until the SOC and battery issues are fixed. This gives everyone a basic understanding without all the complications and/or automations and any possibility these 3rd party implementations messing up GE fixes to fix the SOC.

I have changed the charge rate back to 6000w and will leave the charge power % to 100% until this is all sorted.

New low today of just 7.2 kWh have to say patience is running out now.

Another question please 😀

There is a savings session tonight 5-6, my AIO is at 57% and I have clicked Quick Setting Mode to pause battery in the app. Says “pauses the battery from charging or discharging”

Clicked battery in app and it’s still discharging 433w to home. Is this correct?
Why does the battery not say Idle?
Can the battery be put into Idle?
Does it work via the Portal?
Does it work if your using Home assistant for example?

Left it Paused for 1 hour and battery is now at 54%. Not happy 🙁

I am running out of fingers to count the things that the app or AIO does not do 😡

Daveb01
I am just finding the exact same thing, and have the same questions as you.

I have also tried putting it into "Eco (Paused)" mode via GivTCP/HA - no effect. I am discharging to. load at 607W

Looks like it SHOULD be working ...

Pause has never worked properly for me.

The only way to properly idle the batteries I've found is to turn ECO mode off.

ProximusAl I was seeing the same (on hybrid inverter). In the remote control section, I have pause start and end times - they were both 00:00. Changing end time to 23:59 got pause working for me.

DD Yes I also have that, but if you look really close, you’ll find creep of around 40-60 watts.

ProximusAl yeah, I assume that's consumed by the BMS.

Daveb01
Did your system charge up as normal last night?

Mine didn't. But I had a busy day yesterday - moved to a new tariff, messed with the play/pause function, played with HA, did the Saving Session through HA/GivTCP. And somewhere in that lot the "Battery Charge Power" got set to 0 without me spotting it. I'm just trying to figure out which of my many actions was the error...

I discharged just under 6kWh to the grid in last nights 1 hour saver session. By the time I turned in last night the battery was down to 6%. I'd set up a charge to 100% during the 02:00 to 05:00 cheap rate. It finished charging about 3:30 and the app tells me that I imported 8.8kWh from the grid during that time, with less than 200w of background house load. It seems that 8.8kWh is 94% of total battery capacity. Let's hope the new firmware lands soon and sorts these issues out.

PianSom

I charged for 30 mins before the event as battery was below 50% and did a timed discharge during savings session. Once completed I put it back to Dynamic and got past 7pm on battery so all good. Just checked the battery and it lasted to 0200 and got down to 34%.

Sent this to GE.

This subject is only to do with charging.

1. The AIO has a charge setting - Charge Power rate of 6000w. I can change this in the app or Portal.
   After discussions in the community I am going to set it to 4470w for a week to see if this improves the SoC.

2. In the Portal only there is a setting under General called - Battery Power Charge %
   Some have set this to 60% but left the above setting at 6000w.

So my questions please.

1. What is the difference between the two?
2. Is it better to set one or the other?
3. Is there any effect if both are set?

Got this in reply
The charge rate is the rate that the battery will charge or discharge at setting this lower will make the battery last longer but be capped at 4470w. Battery Power Charge % is the max charge the battery will charge up too.

You could have both set and that's fine too.

So did some more homework, have sent this back to GE.

I have had another look at the settings in the Portal and the app and still not sure this is correct as you have described.

In the portal, I have changed the setting in pic 1 and it changes in the app max charge setting up to e.g 60%. I think this is correct. This is what you have described for pic 2?

In the portal, I have changed the setting in pic 2 and it does not change anything in the app.

So what does this setting do to the AIO please?

Daveb01
If only there was somewhere where all this was written down. Rather than having to eke out the information from personal q&a or by experiment.

PianSom
My thoughts exactly. Considering the uniqueness of the AIO and the teething issues with reported / actual capacity I think it would benefit from its own FAQ and " best pracice " documentation instead of leaving users to trawl through various posts and threads looking for information.

Does anyone know what these settings do in the Portal please?

In the app mine is set to (no other settings)
Charge Up To - 100%
Charge Power - 6000w
Start Time - 02:00
End Time - 05:00

Daveb01
Re the "AC Charge Upper % Limit" - until yesterday I thought this was an overriding limit on the charge that the battery would go up to when charging. Yesterday I set off a pre-charge before the Saving Session with that variable set to 50% and the "Enable" setting automatically set to On (but the timed charge upper limit was set to 100%). The battery charged to 58% by the end of the pre-charge session. So not that then.

Which is a long way of saying "I don't know, sorry". My current theory - it does nothing

Going to do some homework. Please look here in a few days 😀

https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/3650-understanding-the-settings-on-your-app-and-portal

Viper

I have a 2nd AIO, rescued from scrap (Dont have any spares, all sold). Once its repaired, I will be starting to test dual AIOs out of the lab

TheDragon (GivEnergy)

Any indication when a second AIO will be available publicly. I was told 2024?
Is this still in plan?
Does GE have a planned quarter in mind e.g 3Q/4Q

I'm a couple of weeks in on my GE AIO/Gateway journey.
Getting increasingly concerned about battery management, each night I seem to be using less and less charge to go to 100%.
The battery gives up in the evening and capacity drops like a stone, when it shouldn't be "empty".Typical example:

When charging last night I appeared to use only 6.6kWhr to go to 100% capacity.

It feels like the AIO has degraded to getting only 50% usage of my battery.
Should I open a problem ticket with GE or wait for a firmware update to the next BMS (I'm currently on 7) ?

Icarus

Same with any sale of goods, you should be raising an issue with your installer as they are on the hook for quality of product they installed - if you have to push for recourse it would be with them.

Ive raised with mine and will be pushing them under consumer rights, triggered within specific to me parameters

Icarus I complained with evidence to my installer, who took it up with GivEnergy.

GE then downgraded my BMS to 6 and recalibrated last week.

It's performing a bit better - taking 12kWh on over night charges. However the SoC is still far from perfect. Jumping up at the end of the charging cycle, and not being that predictive on the way down - I think if I was emptying the battery fully I would start seeing SoC jumps down at the end of the discharge cycle. But I think i'm getting closer to the marketed useful output range of 13.5kWh - I haven't redone the calculations fully yet. I suspect that post calibration, the SoC performs ok, but then starts to drift (depending on how intensive the charging / discharging activities is), which in time limits charging and discharging and so the useful range, until it is reclaibrated.

See end of this thread for more: https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/3593-aio-soc-drop-analysis-based-on-inverter-data/41

Sadly I feel relieved that I am not the only one experiencing these issues. Mine also dropped significant percentage of capacity at a rate that wouldn't happen if I turned everything in the house on to max. This has now been resolved thankfully as has an issue with it suddenly dumping everything it had back to the grid!
My dates for warranty still show wrongly and it's impossible to get 13.5kWh of power into it or out of it!
All very, very frustrating.
What feels worse is that Givenergy support seem to have no empathy and cannot muster any sort of apology.

Support are kinda between a rock and a hard place, hopefully V8 battery firmware will come very soon and its seems a lot better than 7.

Coys68

As mentioned in some ways its the installers we should all be complaining to - if installers wont install GE due to grief and complaints and requests for refunds etc then GE will have to start being a little more attentive. Unfortunately voices in here don't mean anything.

Where GE are at fault is that they are not officially outside this forum acknowledging this issue (not that they did with others), and like you mention not registering the fact that the selling point is to REDUCE electricity costs aka payback cases are built for many on storing 13.5 kWh per day. If we wanted to store less we could of saved in buying a cheaper rig.

The other issue with GE is that if you release something that created a pain point and was costing clients money - release should be rolled back not left in situ, within the forum there seems to be nobody here at least saying 7 was better for them (hope in a way some do) so no justification in sticking with 7 fallout from unhappy customers.

These forums are, by their very nature, often inhabited by people disgruntled with something - does anyone know if there are actually any AIO's out there working correctly?
If there are it shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to correct these issues surely??

Coys68 mine’s working fine

Is anyone having issues with the charge and discharge level being frozen at 0.

Mine seems to be and I can not change it.
I have reset to defaults (it goes back to 6000w then back to 0w
I have restarted the AIO and still the same

Any ideas?

Daveb01 yes - exact same issue here. Anybody else? Could it be a server issue / anyone know of a fix?

That's a new one on me

EDIT
Son of a b****

This better just be a visual bug

I got a charge slot set for 22:30 so I will find out, also the battery is supplying my home fine so im inclined to believe its a display error.

EDIT 2
Mine seems to have gone back to 6000

Setting values to 6000 in the web based portal seems effective, however no record of action in logs. Hmmm...

I didnt do anything, I just left it

Looks like mine is fixed up too...

I contacted GE they had a look at the issue and fixed it phew.

Looks like it is all sorted and back to normal.

deanjesper
Which model of firmware are you on?

Mine hit a new low literally today - dropped with this huge amount of usage

Well this is interesting, and sort of encouraging after a fashion. After a couple of weeks where going by charge and discharge amounts seemed to indicate that my AIO actual capacity was in the region of 10kWH, last night saw the timed charge ( whch I'd set a charge rate of ~ 4.5kWh - ish ) start from a base of 7% at 02:00 to 100% at 04:45 having taken a charge of 11.6kWh. Of interest was that toward the end of the charging cycle there were a few discrete steps where it briefly paused at 96%, 98%, and 99%.
Not the full promised capacity by any means, I'll see if it reverts back to it's usual pattern tonight.

DreadorUK
Ditto here. Mine hit a new low this morning too:

I've opened a support ticket with GE and requested that my BMS firmware be upgraded (in the hope that it will solve the problem).
My battery is also dying in the evening. Yesterday was particularly noticable:

That's the first time it as died as high as 57%.
The pattern I'm seeing is that it just keeps on degrading day-by-day and I've only had the equipment since 2023-11-28.

deanjesper - That's really good to hear. Is your battery fully discharging so that you can see total kWh charged and then discharged?

Icarus

Yeah Im mailing installer to try and resolve, my concern is beta firmware without installer buy in gives said installers opt out of consumer rights - unless they agree to it.

Id push more for roll back to 6 through installer as such.

Icarus
Hi, Where exactly is that top screen within the different data views? Sorry if I'm being thick but I can't find the "Battery Charge Today " display.

Tenkaykev

Take a look at METER DATA

Found it! Many thanks.
Grid import today started with 0.1 at 02:01 then stabilised at 12.6 KWh at the end of the forced charge at 0:500.

Coys68 yeah yesterday was a high usage day so hit my 5% reserve at about 11pm. This is today’s graph so far with low usage:

Getting really annoyed with this sudden drop and reaching out to grid when there is enough juice.
Already had calibration done but still having issues.
I've been told to wait for fireware 8 update, but it's not helping my reason for getting AIO.

Nik I understand your frustration believe me, think my thread was over 250 posts of collecting data as I went, since the latest test that went out is actually called 8 I don't expect there will be much more wait.

I even got to the point where I let it idle for a month before asking if I would like to start having the test firmwares loaded to be part of the test group, aside from a few issues along the way such as discharging down to 0% 3/5 full discharges it has be substantially better.

Honestly with how its performing compared to 7 they would probably do better letting it out into the wild for everyone to test it by now hehehe.

After the battery took a charge of 13kwH the night before last, last night saw it take a charge of 6.7kWh to take it from a reported capacity of 21% to 100%. I see that the promised software update will be another week according to Paul the Givenergy guy.

Jellybaby

For me it's the slowness to react that frustrating.

We know going back to 6 improves things and 8 is in the wings but its been over a month

So if you assume out of the 40,000 units they claim to have sold in October is now the low base as Dragon hinted they have run out of stock and say 5% of units are showing signs of SOC that are being pushed (I think its higher but still) then thats 2,000 units supplying lets say 5 kWh below capacity, thats over £2000 a day customer base is paying extra for electric, its been happening for two months so £132,000 spent by customer base.

Then there is that 4% if you take that into account its stealing .5 kWh's from the advertised usable amount of every customer thats across the board so lets say 20% purchased the battery to hammer it (again it should be higher as you should not buy a battery to not be using it) then thats close to £1000 per day its costing user base.

When you look at the total picture it all adds up.

DreadorUK
If only 5% of units are affected there wouldn’t be a great deal of focus on it. What’s more likely is that only 5% of customers are monitoring output closely enough to see that it’s not performing as advertised. If it’s only 5% affected how can it possibly be firmware that’s causing the problem.

DreadorUK where is the 40,000 units sold in October figure from? I’d be amazed if it’s that many.

Axle are only handling 6MW in GivBack to the grid - say on average it’s 2kW per customer that’s only 3,000 people signed up.

I’d argue that the reputation damage is costing GE a great deal more in loss of sales - people not choosing GE, the AIO, or certainly thinking twice before ordering another.

Ok - found reference to this 40k figure in another AIO thread - including others voicing their disbelief that they installed this many as of an October trade show:
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/3276-steer-clear-from-aio/13

What really gets me is that GE have all the data on installed AIOs in their cloud (we all send data to them, right?). They therefore have a clear understanding of where and when SoC issues happen (even if they’re yet to crack the why) and how many AIOs are impacted out of their installed base.

My gut feel is that the install base of AIOs at the very most is in low, single-digit thousands, given the GivBack volume, and 25%+ are impacted by the software issue, going off how many people are rightly complaining about poor performance across this forum and FB.

I suspect most people just aren’t paying close attention or active on FB / these forums.

Do the unit serial numbers give anything away? I’m guessing they’re not assigned one after the other?

How about install location / ambient temperature?

The 30-40k figure will more likely be Installed units of all types, not just the AIO.
Before they hosed my ability to find out just how many users there are from the API they were in the high 30k mark...

deanjesper Are you able to see, on the portal rather than the App, how many kWh's it took to show a charge from 5% to 100%? Mine used 12.8kWh from the grid yesterday from 5% to 100%. Certainly still not having 13.5kWh of usable power......

Coys68 Doesn't show from 5% to 100%, unless that happened to be where your post midnight charging SoC began and you topped up to 100% (and no another energy went to battery eg PV generation).

Under My Inverters from the right hand side menu on the dashboard, choose the AIO by clicking on the screen icon in the right hand side (“Inverter Information”). Scroll right across to Meter Data (far right tab by clicking on “>” arrow in the top right corner). See columns “Battery Charge Today (kWh)” and “Battery Discharge Today (kWh)” for the cumulative running total.

Also a graph underneath for a plot of key “Today” metrics.

BlokeFromStoke wouldn’t be that hard to deduce indoor or outdoor installations from battery temp and historic weather conditions, would it?

26Left
My supplier balked a little when I mentioned the AIO. He was pushing the Tesla " PowerWall " as a tried and tested alternative. In my naivety I thought that the AIO would be a better alternative. LiFePo instead of Lithium manganese cobalt chemistry. He attended the industry show in Birmingham and said that Givenergy had assured the very many installers who were raising concerns that everything was sorted.
I am willing to wait a week or so more to see if the new firmware gives me my promised 13.5 kWh storage, then I will be seeking a replacement/ refund as the unit supplied does not meet the promised specifications.

Coys68 12.8kwh charge also.

The day before shows 14kwh discharge.

26Left

deanjesper Would you battery have received any solar charge through the day?

Coys68 probably a tiny bit, a few hundred watts at most

Tenkaykev

It's crystal clear that GE has been, and still is, using customers as beta testers. Personally I'm not interested in having to micromanage my electricity usage in order to make a sub-par product pay for itself. Very glad I stalled for 9 months on the Gen 2 stuff, and then pulled the plug. Still watching, nice to see the 0 Vat rating on the way.

It's not a firmware problem, it's a hardware problem that they are trying to fudge as best they can with software and blah blah blah.

Tenkaykev Let us know how you get on with the refund. You are likely to be sent between GE and your installer, neither taking responsibilty.

phoenix You are right.
Does the AIO look great on paper and an alternative to the Tesla PW? Definitely.
Does it deliver the advertised performance? not at all. It requires at best micromanagement to get anywhere near the promised capacity out of it.

GaryS

Hopefully GE will get it sorted.

However as I have already posted imagine if GE were selling the AIO as a car, they would not sell many if the battery performed this way and What Car/Auto Express would be all over it.

The company who installed our system still won't touch the AIO. They've had requests for it but they won't install it. In their opinion it was rushed out because of the powerwall & its not worth the hassle at this point. Maybe towards the end of next year was what they told me....

Vestas

I find it extremely hard to believe that these AIO issues are not similar/identical to the other (ongoing) battery issues. As such I am of the opinion that GE KNOWINGLY released a faulty product to market to grab the bucks and frankly didn't give a shit about the consequences. I resent the fact that they are seemingly able to get away with this kind of behaviour.

I get people are frustrated but if you look at it from a business perspective then getting it on the market ASAP was needed. It’s quite a big product to rival the Powerwall. Sometimes it’s better to get something off the ground rather than delay and miss out. I’m sure GivEnergy are committed to solving these issues, it’s in their interests for the long term and also they don’t want dissatisfied customers. It doesn’t excuse anyone being frustrated but I think they will sort the issues out within time (based on interactions I’ve had with them so far). Just hang in there if you can!

Goshiki2

Been round that loop a few times.

I think GE has some people who work really hard to get things doing what they should . Sadly there are also others who it feels just want to take the money whilst the going is good and pretend the problems are not what they are.

Edit: Just to add we were going to go GE, but ended up going with a PW instead.

kram just out of interest, has everyone here escalated their issues to the CEO? Maybe some chats at the top might help.

deanjesper

Id be surprised if CEO isn't aware of issues, as mentioned before though its not really helping us chewing at GE, its the installers whom we have taken contract with and who are on hook for refunds

Its them that should be pushing GE to sort as they stand to be out of pocket as they might be able to get battery refunded but they will be losing on install costs.

I’ve said it before, and don’t want to sound like a broken record, but on the 3007 still doesn’t fix thread it was very clear those at the top knew. There were letters from them published as PDF probably a couple of years ago for issues on the hybrids.

There are definitely some that want to fix the issues, but they can only do what they are allowed to do by those at the top.

I'm just wondering if they've cobbled together some smaller packs and in doing so exacerbated the problems quite a few folk still see with single packs. Our two 9.5s are now OK ish although SoC deviates even when they're cycled. But it's manageable. It took a long time for GE to get to a new firmware which is reasonable but how far off they are with the AIO who knows? My feeling is that if you have packs with a few "dodgy" cells, then the whole unit is compromised - stick several units together to make the AIO and it all gets a bit flaky? I may be barking up the wrong tree but something is clearly wrong and in the absence of anything official, folk will draw their own conclusions.

Having been pointed to the " Meter Data " tab on the " My Inverter " page I've been tabbing back through and reached the initial install date. This was 17/11/2023. on that day I see that " Battery Charge Today " shows 8.9kWh and Battery Discharge Today " shows 3.9kWh. I was under the impression that the commissioning process involved a full charge / discharge cycle? I can understand that the charge figure is correct as there will be some charge already in the battery when first connected, but the discharge figure doesn't seem right.

Tenkaykev it does the discharge first, then the charge.

Tenkaykev, the calibration process is firstly the discharge to empty, followed by a full charge, so the charge in the battery as delivered will show up in the discharge figure.

My experience of installation with a 5Kw Gen2 hybrid was that the calibration did not occur on the first day, it was 1 or 2 days later when the GE techs got round to it. I got notifications via the App on my phone when it started and when it finished.

It may be worth checking your Meter Data info for a few days following the install.

Simon_C
Thanks, that makes sense. I've tabbed forward to today and can't see any charge / discharge over the following weeks that are more than single figures, the exception being a few days ago on the 15th when it took 13kWh in the 02:00 to 05:00 Flux import slot ( I have the battery set to charge to 100% between these times )
I suppose it is better to hang on for the promised firmware update and then request a calibration so I will be starting with a clean slate as it were.

Tenkaykev

Sorry if Im teaching you to suck eggs here but Its all going to depend if your using the battery up in the first place check your usage, if you look at your day and see red as your pulling from grid then you have run out of juice, this is what a SOC looks like (6.2 kWh SOC yesterday).

If no red then your simply not using battery capacity during day

I've never seen that much red in a graph! Perhaps I'm mis-interpreting the graph data. Here's mine from the 18th ( today )where I charged to 100% at off peak rates then ran on battery for the rest of the day.

Tenkaykev

Yeah I remember the days when I had that - As Im mentioned my AIO is suffering from this issue where it thinks its fully charged when it isn't, and so Im only getting just over 6 kWh a day not the 13.5 kWh capacity (the reason for this thread as such)

Just had my worst drop on the battery.

Just dropped from 68% to unusable in minutes.

I had a response from a Third line service desk Engineer (Fraser) and quote:

BMS 8 should be released shortly and address these issues
unquote

...so I just need to hang on in there and wait for public release of BMS 8.
This situtaion is so frustrating.

My AIO was commissioned on the 17th August 2023. It arrived with v4 software.

So they had 4 chances to get it right. We will be on v8 soon.

What I am doing is:

1. Noting every time there is a SOC crash (date and time)
2. What % the battery crashed from/to
3. How much it has cost me in extra electricity by the SOC crashes. E.g would have been using the battery but using grid instead.

I will decide what to do with the info, once it is fixed.

I have now turned it into a game, much less stressful. Trying to guess at what SOC the AIO will drop out. I am getting quite good with it.
If I hadn't paid over £6k for this piece of S*&^, it could even have been fun to try and save the planet!

Icarus ....My AIO used to do exactly this from various SoC's. For some reason I already have BMS 8 and that no longer happens.
I still can't get to 13.5kWh of usable power though. Capping out at about 12 which seems quite good compared to some of you guys.

Folks,

I'm on BMS 8 beta and can confirm it seems to be better than BMS 7 i.e. in my case the missing 2 kWh capacity seems to have reappeared and it seems to be better at delivering the stated capacity ie the battery seems to be better at understanding when the battery is full/empty (makes a change from my BMS experience where capacity kept dropping)

Have not been on it long enough to feel fully confident all problems solved in all scenario's (and I do have one day where seemed to loose a small amount of capacity, but recovered afterwards.

Believe there is still a minor fix or two incoming for BMS 8.

tomorrowman good to hear some progress, I just lost 30% +/- sudden drop so some improvement is welcome

I've just had a reply from an installer I contacted earlier in the year. He says he gave up his GE licence because " ... the support was terrible. I've seen too many customers have issues and Givenergy fob them off."
So I'm watching this issue with a great deal of interest as a prospective customer.

An off peak charge on Flux between 02:00 and 05:00 took my battery from a reported 15% to 100% with a charge of 11.70kWh. Extrapolating that 85% to 100% would give 13.75kWh of capacity. hat's the second time in the month since installation that the figures look as promised.

Looks like GE have been updating the AIO in the portal again.
Now

Battery Capacity
52 Ah | 13.58 kWh | (4 Packs)

Plus my Gateway has disappeared from the portal again? Any one else’s disapeared?

Daveb01 Mine shows the same. My Gateway is "Lost" - has been since 29 November.

Under " My Inverters " my Gateway has been Orange and " Waiting " since installation. The battery capacity is showing as 0.0kWh SOC 0% BMS Version 0
I have tentatively tried to connect to it but don't know the password ( I've tried the serial number ) I was going to follow the Dongle reset procedure but I'm loth to mess with the WiFi or anything Internet related at the moment as my wife is working on her dissertation with a deadline of 11th January. It has to be submitted electronically so I'm steering well clear of any changes at all to my Internet / WiFi /Tech stuff until after then.

Tenkaykev You have presumably told the installer this?

Daveb01 Good spot. Mine says that on the portal now as well - it used to say 15.96 kWh.

52 Ah | 13.58 kWh | (4 Packs)

My gateway is still listed - in amber ("waiting") status - apparently that's normal behaviour.

Just to add to the discussion, My AIO is also showing now 13.58kWh which is a surprisingly precise figure obviously calculated from some piece of data.

I found this helpful photos from the inside of the AIO looking at the 4 drawers of cells and how they are labelled
https://community.givenergy.cloud/d/3245-new-allinone-install-only-storing-12kwh-not-135kwh-specified/36

Shows the label on each includes:

• Rated Energy (25*C) 3993Wh
• Usable Capacity 3400Wh

So looks like they're now showing on the portal 4x the second figure rather than 4x the first...

I left this feedback a while ago in the portal, so GE may be listening?

Thank you GE for updating the AIO & Gateway Picture in the Portal, however please consider the following to make each tab correct as per the product.

AIO tabs:

1. General is says 0 battery packs, should this not be 4?
2. PV data is not populated, this Tab should be removed. This is associated with the Gateway
3. Battery Tab has the wrong battery picture, should be AIO
4. Grid data Tab, should this be removed as it is associated with the Gateway.
5. Meter Data Tab should be removed as all the Meters are in the Gateway.

Gateway

1. General Tab Battery type should be same as AIO not Lead Acid, Battery Capacity should be same as AIO plus 4 packs not 0.
2. Notifications could have things like Power Cut switch overs, AIO offline etc.
3. Remove the settings Tab as this is a function of the AIO
4. System data Tab is not populated should it be removed for Gateway?
5. PV data Tab is not populated, PV is plugged into the Gareway and is the function of the Gateway.
6. Battery Data Tab the picture is wrong should be AIO, should be populated with AIO data?
7. Grid data Tab should be populated as it is plugged into the Gateway?
8. Inverter Tab should be removed
9. Meter Data Tab is not populated, all the Meters are in the Gateway and should be read and populated.

SOC have been great on all the test versions ive been given but inverter keeps going idle for 2-5m at a time a few times a day on latest iteration of the test.

Jellybaby

Mines done that on 6 and 7 so not sure its just a beta thing - Still on 7 and mines down as I type

DreadorUK Ive been going back on my portal data and from what I can see ive not had it happen until after V8 was put on, I went back a month.

V8 went on on 11th December and since then its happened without a doubt (large gaps)
17th December around 23:12-23:18, one large gap
18th December 14:05-14:09, 14:14-14:17 (two gaps, one large then one small)
18th December 23:26-23:28, 23:29-23:33 (two gaps, one small one large and grid import wasn't 0 all the time)
December 19th 13:06-13:09 and 15s, 13:09 and 37s to 13:13, 13:14-13:15
December 20th 13:01-13:06, 13:11-13:13 (one large then one small gap)
December 20th 23:05-23:08:00, 23:08:33-23:12 (one small then one large gap)
December 21st 13:36-13:39, 13:41-13:47 (one small then one large gap)
December 22nd 01:07-01:10:13, 01:10:36-01:14:54 (one small then one large gap SEE IMAGE 1)
December 22nd 12:49-12:54:28, 12:54:54-12:58:56 (one large then one large gap SEE IMAGE 2)

IMAGE 1 - You can see here that the grid import did show some of the time whilst inverter was idle but not all the time like previously.

IMAGE 2 - You can see here the same but this time it recognises grid import 3 times whilst inverter remains idle.

26Left

So that equates to 14% less? (If my math is correct)
If they eventually give us back the 4% that would be a good compromise. As it does say 100% discharge. Fingers crossed.

Ive told my installer that I am prepared to wait for the new software version but if that doesn’t fix the capacity issue then they need to replace the system or remove it and refund me, as it doesn’t meet the specification given. Got 6.8kwh yesterday and it fell off the cliff during cooking dinner.

IMO this product should be pulled from sale until the bugs are worked out. If your TV didn’t show half the picture you’d take it straight back.

Ben Taylor-Wright show off with you high capacity 🙂 - I got 5.2 kWh yesterday betting on 5 today as the daily .2 chip away continues.

DreadorUK my lowest charge was under 3kWh from 5/10% (can’t remember now) to full, followed as expected by a huge SOC drop from around 70-80% on the following discharge.

The new firmware that is coming soon should make a huge difference. I’m beta testing it and so far looking good on my system.

treborUK that’s good to hear. Got just over 9kwh today and a little bit of solar. I’s so frustrating when I’m sure I can get a whole day without needing peak rate leccy.

treborUK Last couple of empties have been outside my margin of error on doing the math on kwh in and out and im not sure if its just not seeing it all at once and I have to wait for idle then wait a few hours for it to go up a little then drain a few times or not to get the rest of it.

Ive noticed ive gotten 15.3 often but a few times ive gotten around 12 as well, can vary from straight flat to full charges to 30m overnight agile periods set, guess thats one benefit of having a lot of testers you can gather longerm data quicker.

Still leaps and bounds over 7 though, I am just curious how it will perform going day to day via solar only when summer comes around.

I do wish they would find a way to program in a one time calibration button on software screen like where update button is put so we can choose after having latest firmware version on when to charge the battery because the charge/discharge rates have never worked properly for me since v6.

8% to 100% in last nights charge was apparently 2.9kWh, I am getting particularly ticked off now with it not even being close to the 13.5kWh I paid for. I asked GE to recalibrate or to look at my numbers and system but I was told that they are working on the new firmware and I am to wait. Not looking likely for me adopting the multi AIO setup I was going to do when possible.

Jellybaby

I agree, we should all leave feed back in the portal to ask for this feature.

I am going to do it now 😀👍

Please can you consider users having the ability to re-calibrate the battery when the SOC is way out. This could be in the section where software updates are posted.
If there is an issue with users doing re-calibration to often you could limit it to say once a week or two weeks or monthly.

Battery Calibration
You submitted this on 2023-12-24 14:30:06

Advantages:

1. Users would not need to contact GE helpline or email.
2. GE service engineers would not need to spent valuable time starting a re-calibration.
3. Users can pick a time that best suits there situation for the re-calibration (this is very important and saves users money)
4. GE can monitor how many re-calibrations are being started by Users and potentially see any issues and get this corrected sooner.

Daveb01

I mentioned this once and was told it was due to impact it has on life of battery, it was available but removed as some were doing it too often to be good for the battery and putting warranty under strain from a GE perspective.

I recommend in a post a middle ground where we still contact engineer and they then enable a one time recalibration button within the page to allow us to begin the process

Daveb01 I already mentioned in in my emails with the person ive been speaking with, it would be great though BUT it should only be for testers since they get more battery firmware updates and have no control on when it gets updated so calibration control as a 1 use button after firmware been applied would be great.

Perhaps it should be on a timer you can adjust, rather than just a go button. Otherwise some may not get round to pressing it.
Ie you can defer it, but it's going ahead at some point whether you like it or not

Thought Id do an update with my AIO on version 7

Back on 21/11/23 I had calibration done to try and recover lost capacity, I don't have solar and took AIO to supply house on cheap electric so very clean in data transparency

So with Median of 1% loss per day it seems I have with no resolution about 35 days before battery will be totally pointless

Frustration on many levels with GE mostly and my installer for sitting on the fence but both are another story, just thought Id share the data

Note: Where I didn't use enough it was where usage was below SOC trigger so percentage at time of recharge was above still - so likely would of been a SOC anyways.

DreadorUK I’ve been on various beta firmware revisions for a couple of months, the current one for over 3 weeks and no SOC drops and still taking and giving over 13kWh daily from a 10% reserve. Think there a few final tweaks being made but I do think there should be an update for general release in January (my opinion, I have no official word) - will hopefully resolve your issue (and for others with SOC and capacity issues).

treborUK

Thats my frustration - They know how many of us are being impacted, they know its costing us money, and apart from it seems one employee the rest of GE appear to be just sticking their proverbial head in the sand - no official statement no nothing, and no emails to those impacted to explain what is going on.

I was that peeved I even wrote the SQL to pull the impacted users (if I had access to the view on the portal lol) to prove a point to myself

DreadorUK

Same as last time's fiasco with SoC drops I'm afraid. PR isn't their forte it seems... you've got one person we see here coordinating testing and feedback to try and ensure quality, but it needs more heads involved to manage overall comms.

DreadorUK
This appears to be GE's business model. Keep announcing kit that either never gets released or is released years late. Ignore serious problems for as long as possible. Then drag out resolution for as long afterwards as possible. In the meantime, keep flogging the products as quick as you can import them. The solar/battery market is hugely buoyant so pretty much anything will sell.
Pissing your user base and installer base off is rarely a good long-term strategy for any business. At some point the market will become saturated and then the blood-letting will happen, with the stronger companies getting bigger and the weaker ones failing.
I guess it depends on what the business strategy is. If it is making as much money as possible in the shortest space and then exiting with the pension stuffed full, then GE's strategy seems like a good one to me.....

DreadorUK
@DreadorUK your 'Decline of Battery' is very consistent with the results I am seeing.
My last calibration was done on 28/11/2023 and I've reached the point that my battery is totally pointless now that it is dropping from 80+ percent.

I noticed this morning it is taking just 2.9 kWhr Charge to go from useless to (an apparent) 100%.

Very unhappy customer. If the BMS version 8 doesn't completely resolve the issue I will have to legally escalate.